LittleLes Posted March 22, 2005 Author Share Posted March 22, 2005 Hi Archangel, I think you will find that "Sunni Islam" is only one sect, not the total number of Muslims. Heard of the Shites"? LittleLes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted March 22, 2005 Author Share Posted March 22, 2005 (edited) CAM says "Who cares? It really has nothing to do with this conversation." Perhaps you overlooked the argument that was attempted that since the Ebionite movement disappeared, it couldn't have been the true faith." But in case you did, please reread Archangel's post of 20 March. "Why didn't any of these sects survive if they supposedly contained the "truth" or the "way."? If Catholicism eventually disappears as statistics indicate it is beginning to do, will that be proof that it didn't contain the "truth" or the "way"? That's the logical follow-on question to the one Archangel asked. Little Les Edited March 22, 2005 by LittleLes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Brother Littleles, I said "who cares" when talking about the Muslim population of the world. I notice that you are straying from the topic again. I have given hard proof as to the reasoning why the Ebionites were put down. They were heretical. It has been proven. I have shown the proof. Not by my opinion, but the teachings of the EARLY Church. And notice that the Early Church was contemporary with the heretical Ebionites. So, if you can prove that the Ebionites were not heretical (that is held to teachings contrary to the Church) then we will listen. If not, relent. Your opinion means nothing. Cam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted March 22, 2005 Author Share Posted March 22, 2005 (edited) "They were heretical. It has been proven." What proof are you referring to? Do you use the axiom that everything the Church teaches (at present, since it changes) is correct, and everything that does not fully agree with such teaching is "heretical"? In the final analysis, this argument can be reduced to "...because we say so, that's why." Or as Pope Leo XIII told us in Praeclara Gratulationis Publicael, on 20 June 1894, "We hold upon this earth the place of God almighty." Unfortunately some Catholic true believers think this is so, and believe that they do too. Scary LittleLes Edited March 22, 2005 by LittleLes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 (edited) [quote name='LittleLes' date='Mar 22 2005, 06:54 AM'] Hi Archangel, I think you will find that "Sunni Islam" is only one sect, not the total number of Muslims. Heard of the Shites"? LittleLes [/quote] Just as been pointed out to you, Les, Catholic is only part of who is known to be of Christianity. Ever here of Anglicans, Orthodox, or Lutherans? Edited March 22, 2005 by jasJis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted March 22, 2005 Author Share Posted March 22, 2005 You are saying then that all Christians can be counted as Catholics? Incidently the other Christian religions are declining relative to the total world's population as well. LittleLes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 [quote]You are saying then that all Christians can be counted as Catholics?[/quote] No, we are saying all Christians can be counted as catholics. Big difference. If you can't see it, then you are blind. Spiritually and optically. They are not members of the Catholic Church, but they share in the truth of the Catholic Church to a lesser degree. Insofar as they are separated, they cannot count themselves as Catholic, but they most certainly can count themselves as catholic, IF they are baptized using the Trinitarian formula. Cam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 [quote]Do you use the axiom that everything the Church teaches (at present, since it changes) is correct, and everything that does not fully agree with such teaching is "heretical"? [/quote] Anything that gives credence to a post-baptismal denial of a revealed truth that must be held is heretical. The Ebionites fell into that category, therefore, they are heretical. Let me count the ways, brother Littleles. Cam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted March 22, 2005 Author Share Posted March 22, 2005 Looks like both statements are saying that all Christians can be counted as Catholics. Did you mistype? LittleLes And Catholic claims never cease to amaze me. There are four references to baptism in Acts and all are in the name of Jesus, not the Trinity. Eusebius quotes Matthew 28 in several places, but the baptism he describes too is always in Jesus' name and never includes the Trintarian formula. References to the Trinity in the New Testament (which hadn't been invented yet)occured at two locations, 1 John 5:7 and Matthew 28. Curiously, although we have extensive notes from Nicea, it was apparently not argued there that these references existed. And, of course, 1 John has since been recognized as a later addition to the New Testament and deleted. Somebody has renamed Matt 28 as the Constantine ending. LittleLes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted March 22, 2005 Author Share Posted March 22, 2005 (edited) Of course, the other alternative may be true instead. The Ebionites were correct and the Pauline Church heretical. Or maybe the Gnostics were correct and both of the others were heretical? But which ever faction is currently in power can call the others heretical. Can you give me any claim of heresy before the second century?? LittleLes Edited March 22, 2005 by LittleLes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 [quote]Did you mistype?[/quote] Nope. Meant every word. We are saying all Christians can be counted as catholics. We are not saying that all Christians can be Catholics though. You don't see the difference do you? Brother Littleles, you need to study more. [quote]There are four references to baptism in Acts and all are in the name of Jesus, not the Trinity. Eusebius quotes Matthew 28 in several places, but the baptism he describes too is always in Jesus' name and never includes the Trintarian formula.[/quote] Here folks, is the latest attempt to stay off topic. Sorry brother, but all Christians are catholics. They just are not Catholic. Cam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted March 22, 2005 Author Share Posted March 22, 2005 (edited) No CAM. My response is to your claim that they are Catholics if they were baptized with the Trintarian formula. See above. Did you forget so soon what you'd written? LittleLes Edited March 22, 2005 by LittleLes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 [quote]My response is to your claim that they are Catholics if they were baptized with the Trintarian formula. See above. Did you forget so soon what you'd written?[/quote] I believe I said: [quote]Insofar as they are separated, they cannot count themselves as Catholic, but they most certainly can count themselves as catholic, IF they are baptized using the Trinitarian formula.[/quote] You are confused. Try figuring out the difference between catholic and Catholic. Then maybe we can get somewhere. Cam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted March 22, 2005 Author Share Posted March 22, 2005 I'm afraid that you are once again involved in a fallacy due to diction. catholic -is an adjective meaning universal Catholic -is a noun or adjective designating is a faith group. If you are giving the terms new meaning to fit your argument, that is something else, but not an uncommon tactic. Little Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archangel Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 [quote name='LittleLes' date='Mar 22 2005, 08:26 AM'] You are saying then that all Christians can be counted as Catholics? Incidently the other Christian religions are declining relative to the total world's population as well. LittleLes [/quote] Then you must be saying that all Shiites can be counted as Sunis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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