God and Logic

[Paphnutius]

bump

another way to tackel the problem. Kudos.

[MichaelFilo]

So, where do you get that God is Logic? I always thought that Logos means the Word.

God bless,
Mikey

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='MichaelFilo' date='Mar 10 2005, 09:34 PM'] So, where do you get that God is Logic? I always thought that Logos means the Word.

God bless,
Mikey [/quote]
Logos does mean word. What he means by God is logic is that God as the basis of all reality is the basis of logic. God is all truth so he also embodies such. I think that we should really get away from using the term logic.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='MichaelFilo' date='Mar 10 2005, 07:34 PM'] So, where do you get that God is Logic? I always thought that Logos means the Word. [/quote]
If you look up the Greek word "logos" in any Greek dictionary or lexicon you will see that it has various nuances of meaning, and that it can be translated into English as either [i]word[/i] or [i]reason[/i].

Moreover, it must be borne in mind that when the Greek term [i]logos[/i] is translated into English as [i]word[/i] it does not mean simply a spoken or written word; instead, it means the utterance of wisdom or reason signifying the nature of the thing in question. Furthermore, when this Greek word is used specifically of the divine [i]Logos[/i] it concerns the cause of creation and of the order present within the cosmos. That is why the Greek Church has never understood the Johannine term [i]Logos[/i] to mean simply a [i]word[/i], rather it has always believed that the eternal [i]Logos[/i] -- as that which gives being and meaning to the whole of creation -- is the uncreated divine reason itself, [i]hypostatically[/i] distinct from the Father, and yet one in essence ([i]homoousios[/i]) with Him.

Even Pope John Paul II himself draws out this meaning when he speaks of man's ability to intuit the proper ordering of the nature of reality as "orthos logos" or "recta ratio," and of course both phrases are properly translated into English as "right reason." [cf. Pope John Paul II, [u]Fides et Ratio[/u], no. 4] Thus, Christ the eternal [i]Logos[/i] is the uncreated divine reason itself, who gives being to all that exists, and who in the fullness of time became incarnate for the salvation of humanity.

[jasJis]

[quote name='Paphnutius' date='Mar 10 2005, 08:03 AM'] So you think it is possible for God to make 3+4=8? [/quote]
Certainly, without a doubt, if He chooses to.
It's God's choice to be logical so that we can relate to Him, grasp a bit of understanding, and have a relationship with Him. It's God choice to talk to us in simplified terms that we can understand, but it's our limits, not His.

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Mar 11 2005, 07:10 AM'] Certainly, without a doubt, if He chooses to.
It's God's choice to be logical so that we can relate to Him, grasp a bit of understanding, and have a relationship with Him. It's God choice to talk to us in simplified terms that we can understand, but it's our limits, not His. [/quote]
By definition of what 3 is, and by definition of what 4 is, the only outcome can be by definition what 7 is. If there was a God that could act outside of logic, would we want to relate to Him? If God said that He would be merciful, but then could turn on that would that be better? If God could act contrary to reason then we could have no assurance of anything

I guess the answer to your question would be He would never choose to because it cannot be done.

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='Mar 11 2005, 12:50 AM']
Moreover, it must be borne in mind that when the Greek term [i]logos[/i] is translated into English as [i]word[/i] it does not mean simply a spoken or written word; instead, it means the utterance of wisdom or reason signifying the nature of the thing in question. Furthermore, when this Greek word is used specifically of the divine [i]Logos[/i] it concerns the cause of creation and of the order present within the cosmos. That is why the Greek Church has never understood the Johannine term [i]Logos[/i] to mean simply a [i]word[/i], rather it has always believed that the eternal [i]Logos[/i] -- as that which gives being and meaning to the whole of creation -- is the uncreated divine reason itself, [i]hypostatically[/i] distinct from the Father, and yet one in essence ([i]homoousios[/i]) with Him.

[/quote]
Yes we in the Roman rite are aware of that as well. I was simply pointing out the it does not mean logic as we know it. That is why I suggested we depart from using the word logic in this discussion.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Paphnutius' date='Mar 11 2005, 06:16 AM'] Yes we in the Roman rite are aware of that as well. I was simply pointing out the it does not mean logic as we know it. That is why I suggested we depart from using the word logic in this discussion. [/quote]
My post was meant as a clarification for MichaelFilo.

As far as the word "logic" is concerned, it is etymologically derived from the Greek word "logos"; so, I have no problem with its use [i]per se[/i] in relation to God, but I agree with you on this, and I normally prefer to translate the word "logos" into English as "reason," or to avoid the problem entirely, I leave it untranslated and simply transliterate it as "logos."