Melchisedec

[MichaelFilo]

I'm just dieing to know, why do you reject the bible? Might be a good situation from which we can all learn something.

God bless,
Mikey

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='MichaelFilo' date='Mar 9 2005, 08:48 PM'] I'm just dieing to know, why do you reject the bible? Might be a good situation from which we can all learn something.

God bless,
Mikey [/quote]
I reject the bible because I do not believe that the writers of the bible were inspired by god through the holy spirit. We must have faith in the indivuals who wrote the bible, and canonized it. We must trust and have faith that they were indeed speaking with the almighty. The many beliefs of antiquity that have persevered to the modern age all rely on this fact. We must trust the messenger. In todays world, the messenger is often seen as a delusional indivual. In fact, most people professing to speak directly with god are most often ridiculed. Yet, we do see certain indivuals who trust the modern day messengers. L.Ron Hubbard and scientology's following proves that, faiths can be easily created and followed devotedly.

I cannot reconcile the crueltys of the old testament god and his mercilessness aproach towards children. The slaughtering of the israelites enemies children were never spared nor shown mercy. Virgins were given mercy at one point. But the children were not. I have spoken to many appoligist about this, and have heard many explanations. Still I cannot remove the cruelty I see in those acts. To me, its quite aparent those are the acts of men not commisioned by a benelovent being.

The messianic myths. The story of christ is another messianic story that have been perpetuated throughout history. Many messianic tales that are like the bible predate it. To me, it is no coincidence that these messianic tales exist and that they are so similar to the bible.

Becoming an atheist was not something I sought out to do. My goals always were to serve god. Thats what I felt I was put here to do. I wanted to understand the deepest of spiritual truths. In that process I encountered many things that questioned my beliefs. The long process of 'soul searching' ended up to my current views of atheism. It wasn't something easy at all for me to deal with. Essentially turning my world upside down. But it was the course where I could be truest to myself and my heart.

[Paphnutius]

When speaking about biblical inspiration it is important to keep in mind there are two "theories." One is divine dictation, that is God dictated the words of the Bible word for word. That view isnt widley held, and I believe that is the view that you are positing. There is also the theory of natural intuition. The authors of the Bible had spiritual insight to compose the books of the New Testament and to interpert Christ's life. They were guided by the promptings of the Holy Spirit to compose and edit as they did. One must understand how the Spirit works for the theories to be coherent.

Also when speaking about the OT and the NT God it is important to not make them out to be two different Gods. Marcion, a heretic, also thought that the OT God was harsh and could not be reconciled with the NT God of mercy. It is important to keep in mind the God is a just God. His justice may not always make sense to us, but that is our faith. As Dante says, we should not mourne over God's justice being enacted.

The "messianic myths" which you speak of do mirrior in some aspects (virginal birth and what not) some ancient Greek Myth Cults. This is indeed not by coincidence. God had to prepare the world to recieve Christ. THe world would not of been very receptive to Christ if it was not in the correct mode of thinking. So yes they do have similarities, but that was so that the world would not reject Christ's coming. The time was prepared for from all eternity.

Let me know if that helps any.

Pax et Bonum,

[Melchisedec]

[quote]When speaking about biblical inspiration it is important to keep in mind there are two "theories." One is divine dictation, that is God dictated the words of the Bible word for word. That view isnt widley held, and I believe that is the view that you are positing. There is also the theory of natural intuition. The authors of the Bible had spiritual insight to compose the books of the New Testament and to interpert Christ's life. They were guided by the promptings of the Holy Spirit to compose and edit as they did. One must understand how the Spirit works for the theories to be coherent. [/quote]

It was more of a figure of speech. I dont necessarily believe they heard gods voice, but was almost controlled in what they wrote. Some call this channeling or automatic writing. Where the indivual channels a spirit or being of some sort. And through this channeling, they write and the knowledge of that being is revealed. Many beliefs have aroused like this. Such as Urantia.

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='Melchisedec' date='Mar 10 2005, 11:00 AM']
It was more of a figure of speech. I dont necessarily believe they heard gods voice, but was almost controlled in what they wrote. Some call this channeling or automatic writing. Where the indivual channels a spirit or being of some sort. And through this channeling, they write and the knowledge of that being is revealed. Many beliefs have aroused like this. Such as Urantia. [/quote]
It could be because i am not well versed in Scripture Apologetics, but I have not heard of chanelling applied to the authorship of the Scriptures. The Spirit leads in a far more subtle way. May i ask for more clarification as to why you think that discredits the Bible?

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='Paphnutius' date='Mar 10 2005, 11:05 AM'] May i ask for more clarification as to why you think that discredits the Bible? [/quote]
Because there is no way to know for certain if indeed these indivuals were inspired by god to write what they did. That is something you must have faith in. Many of the religions of today were inspired in some way. What should be the criteria to discredit them? I have seen arguments based on christianity having a complete worldview where as the other religions do not. It still does not matter, because the source of the information is questionable in my opinion. The process of evaluating the authenticity of a doctrine or religion becomes purely subjective.

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='Melchisedec' date='Mar 10 2005, 11:17 AM'] Because there is no way to know for certain if indeed these indivuals were inspired by god to write what they did. That is something you must have faith in. Many of the religions of today were inspired in some way. What should be the criteria to discredit them? I have seen arguments based on christianity having a complete worldview where as the other religions do not. It still does not matter, because the source of the information is questionable in my opinion. The process of evaluating the authenticity of a doctrine or religion becomes purely subjective. [/quote]
Ok, I understand now. Or at least I thinnk I do. You say that there is no imperical fact or basis to know with utmost certainty that our Scripture was inspired. Granted. I believe it must be that way. For it is an act of faith that we believe in Scripture's revelation. If it were just a matter of following the breadcrumbs of imperical facts till you came to the understanding that all Scripture was perfectly revealed, that would undermine and destroy the virtue of faith. I do say, it takes faith to believe in the Scriptures. Do I [i]know[/i] from imperical data that they were inspired? No. Do I [i]believe[/i] without a doubt from what God has revealed to me that they were inspired? YES! That is the trick. Faith is a theological virtue, thus something that can only be granted. The point is for the person to make him or herself open to recieving that grace and virtue. I would suggest Melchisedec that you at least try this please. Pray for an increase in the three theological virtues: faith, hope, and love. That is a good place to start. I am not asking for you to committ yourself to anything other than being open to the reception of God's grace of faith.

Pax