Do you accept

[Apotheoun]

This question is nonsensical, and moreover it is based upon the impoverished Protestant understanding of the nature of the Church. It is a dogma of divine and catholic faith that Christ is the Catholic Church, for as scripture itself testifies, the Church is Christ's body, and the Head and the Body are one Man. Therefore, if a man ascribes error to the Catholic Church in matters touching on faith and morals, it follows that he ascribes error to Christ Himself, and that is impossible.

[drforjc]

[quote]One because that Church is the faithful and not the hierarchy in Rome[/quote]

Ummm, last I knew the Church included both the faithful and the hierarchy.

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='drforjc' date='Mar 10 2005, 10:53 AM']
Ummm, last I knew the Church included both the faithful and the hierarchy. [/quote]
True, let me clarify myself. I meant that the Church is not soley the hierarchy in Rome. The Church is lead by it, but it is not the Church. When one wishes to point to the Church they should not defer to the Roman Cura, but rather all the 1.1 billion faithful. I am sorry for any misunderstanding. In no way did i mean to exclude the hierarchy, they are just not exhaustive of the Church. Is that clearer? Once again sorry for any confusion.

[drforjc]

Thanks for the clarification, but I'd like to add in your example about the Arian heresy that the Roman See never embraced or taught Arianism.

The other thing to remember is that people have tried to use this type of argument to, for example, assert that since a majority of the faithful support using ABC, that this is some kind of "sensus fidei" that could somehow overrule the Magisteral teaching on the subject. This is totally fallacious because, unlike the Arian example, it involves [b]reversing[/b] previously defined doctrine. In the Arian controversy, the sensus fidei was legitimate in that it [b]repeated[/b] the orthodox doctrine.

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='drforjc' date='Mar 10 2005, 04:06 PM'] Thanks for the clarification, but I'd like to add in your example about the Arian heresy that the Roman See never embraced or taught Arianism.

The other thing to remember is that people have tried to use this type of argument to, for example, assert that since a majority of the faithful support using ABC, that this is some kind of "sensus fidei" that could somehow overrule the Magisteral teaching on the subject. This is totally fallacious because, unlike the Arian example, it involves [b]reversing[/b] previously defined doctrine. In the Arian controversy, the sensus fidei was legitimate in that it [b]repeated[/b] the orthodox doctrine. [/quote]
Exactly. One just has to realize that the Church is the faithful lead by the Magesterium, and that the Magesterium is accountable to and responsible for the Faithful. I would like to point out though, that there were many bishops that did embrace the Arian heresy, not the Roman See, but many in the clergy did.

[thessalonian]

Wrong on any infallible decrees from councils or Popes?
Wrong on anything that comes under ordinary magesterium?

The answer to these questions is no.

Wrong regarding practice, discipline, or administration. Perhaps.

Since you didn't specify, I didn't vote. Yes, if the Church was wrong on an infallible declaration that Jesus Christ was wrong and was not God. I say that with all confidence. The preponderance of evidence for me makes the chances nil.

God bless

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='drforjc' date='Mar 10 2005, 04:06 PM'] Thanks for the clarification, but I'd like to add in your example about the Arian heresy that the Roman See never embraced or taught Arianism.

The other thing to remember is that people have tried to use this type of argument to, for example, assert that since a majority of the faithful support using ABC, that this is some kind of "sensus fidei" that could somehow overrule the Magisteral teaching on the subject. This is totally fallacious because, unlike the Arian example, it involves [b]reversing[/b] previously defined doctrine. In the Arian controversy, the sensus fidei was legitimate in that it [b]repeated[/b] the orthodox doctrine. [/quote]
I have been thinking. I wanted to thank you for making me clarify me earlier position. Sometimes we overspeak when we want to make a point. I think that we both are saying the same thing, but when (especially when) we are in an interfaith dialouge we must be careful about the way we word things. Once again thank you for correcting me.

Pax et Bonum

[Winchester]

ferrets

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Winchester' date='Mar 10 2005, 11:17 PM'] ferrets [/quote]
Now this poll finally makes sense.

[conservativecatholic]

I refuse to speculate- what a waste of time.

[Phazzan]

[quote]Do you accept that the Catholic Church could possibly be wrong?[/quote]

Well, no, the Catholic Church wouldn't be wrong, we would be wrong because we believed it. Do I accept that I could possibly be wrong? Well considering the diverse number of religions throughout the world, and the billons of people who, like Catholics, are convinced in themselves of their beliefs, I would say yes. Some people may call it a lack of faith, but it would be true for the majority of the world.

[FutureSoror]

No, I see no possibility for the Catholic Church to be wrong. There was a time when I wasn't sure, but I have questioned it enough and learned enough about it since then to wash away my doubts and fears and convince me that This is THE CHURCH! There can be no other way.

[jasJis]

Does dairygirl accept that the Catholic Church is right?

[Fidei Defensor]

No. Its not wrong. If it is, depending on what it is wrong about, it could mean all of the protestant churches are wrong too.

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='p0lar_bear' date='Mar 10 2005, 08:47 AM']I am willing to entertain the possibility that the Catholic Church is wrong in making the Swiss Guards wear those multicolored outfits with the puffy pants.[/quote]
Brilliant!