Monica Posted October 30, 2003 Author Share Posted October 30, 2003 They must not have heard of Mother Teresa. She was Catholic! And she spent her life serving the sick; people with such diseases as leprousey, etc. Nut just the common cold. Man, it just frustrates me how we are hidden by so many lies. The truth is, though, that Christianity was spread to the ends of the Earth by the Catholic Church. The Bible was compiled by the Church! Where do people think they got the Bible (falling from the sky?) Well, I'm glad you're here Monica. Again, i don't want to offend any one or bash catholicism, i'm just giving my honest opinion. OK?? Mother Teresa might be an exception, she might be saved. Even SOME catholics are saved, even though they follow your faith. Maybe i should add that to my signature, I DON'T MEAN TO OFFEND ANY CATHOLICS OR CATHOLIC-BASH, JUST GIVING WHAT I KNOW AND READY TO LEARN SOME MORE lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 there WERE sinful Popes, but Christ made sure they didn't lead the Church into wrong doctrines. Catholics forbade ppl to read ERONEOUS TRANSLATIONS of the Bible. there were lotz of Bibles floating around with mistakes. Therefore, the Catholic Church made sure it's members would not be lead astray by false translations. Martin Luther cut up the Bible, took 7 whole books out, even almost took the letter of James out, cause they didn't agree with him. Catholics who were forbidden from reading the eroneous translations could easily just go to mass. if they went for three years every sunday, they would hear the entire Bible. also, Martin Luther didn't set ppl back strait, the Council of Trent did that 100 X more than he could have. some of his points were valid, complaining about certain abuses, and Pope Leo the whatevereth accepted like 44 of his theses or something, but the other ones he rejected. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted October 30, 2003 Author Share Posted October 30, 2003 here is, for example, something we studied once, about jesuits. here is the creed jesuits take: The Jesuit Oath “I now, in the presence of the Almighty God, the blessed virgin Mary, the blessed Michael the Archangel, the blessed St John the Baptist...and my ghostly father, the superior general of the Society of Jesus, founded by St Ignatius Loyola, do, by the womb of the Virgin... swear that His Holiness the Pope is Christ’s vice-regent, and is the true and only Head of the Catholic or Universal Church... I do now renounce and dis-own any allegiance is due to any heretical King, Prince, or State, named Protestant or Liberal, or obedience to any of their laws or magistrates, or officers. I do further declare the doctrine of the Church of England, and Scotland, and of Calvinists, Huguenots, and others of the name of Protestant or Liberal, to be damnable, and themselves to be damned, who will not forsake the same. I do further promise and declare that, notwithstanding I am dispensed with, to assume my religion heretical for the propagation of Mother Church’s interest, to keep secret and private all her agents, counsels, from time to time, as they interest me, and not divulge directly or indirectly, by word, writing, or circumstances whatever. I do furthermore promise and declare that I will, when opportunity presents, make and wage relentless war secretly or openly, against all heretics, Protestants... as I am directed to; extirpate them from the face of the earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex, or condition, and that I will hang, burn, waste, boil, flay, strangle and bury alive those infamous heretics; rip up the stomachs and wombs of the women, and crush their infant’s heads against the wall in order to annihilate their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly, I will secretly use the poison cup, the strangulating cords, the steels of the poinard, or the leaden bullets, regardless of the honour, rank, dignity, or authority of the persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed to, by any agent of the Pope, or the superior of the Holy Father of the Society of Jesus. In confirmation of which I hereby dedicate my life, my soul, and my corporeal powers; and with this dagger, which I now receive, I will subscribe my name written in blood in testimony thereof; and should I prove false, or weaken in my determination, may my brethren and fellow-soldiers of the militia of the Pope, cut off my hands and my feet, and my throat from ear to ear, rip my belly open, and sulphur burn therein, and all the punishments that can be inflicted on me on earth, and my soul be tortured by demons in an eternal hell for ever. In testimony thereof I take this most holy and blessed sacrament of the Eucharist, and witness the same further with my name written with the point of this dagger, dipped in my own blood, and sealed in the face of the holy covenant.” you can hardly say that's christian. Jesus would never aprove. never. i'm sorry to say this, but THEY sound like heretics to me. again, no offense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted October 30, 2003 Author Share Posted October 30, 2003 there WERE sinful Popes, but Christ made sure they didn't lead the Church into wrong doctrines. but also in the modern days, there were VERY sinful popes! For example Pius XII, who completely supported hitler. and i'm not makingg this up, we read a book in class approved by historians called "Hitler's pope: The Secret History of Pius XII" or something like that. And here's a website: http://www.chick.com/bc/1989/holocaustorin...OM=Catholicpage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 Welcome to phatmass Monica. I'm dUSt, the webmaster. The bathroom is down the hall to the right, and we like to eat tacos, so very tasty and good for you,. Potlucks every Tuesday. Now... what is the source of that "Jesuit Oath"? Where did you find that? Was it on the Jesuits website, or from a Jesuit source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 But I KNOW, from what i've larned in my 22 years from various sources...Okay... I'll be gentle! I can guarantee that NONE of these sources were from actual Catholics. It's just interesting to me how Protestant teachers, etc. will tell you what Catholics believe, and then immediately tell you that "if you go to a real Catholic and ask what they believe, they will lie to you." This then sets you up to NEVER learn what we really teach! It makes no sence that we would "hide" what we "really" believe. Like, say for instance that Catholics really worshipped Satan. If it was such a "secret" that not even I "a Catholic" know it, then how is it that someone completely outside the Church has gotten hold of this secret! that the catholic church went astray, and was very corrupted, It actually wasn't the Church that corrupted, it was a few individuals inside the Church. The official teachings have NEVER in their 2000 year history changed. Some individuals inside the Church (maybe even in high possitions) may have said one thing or another, or done one thing or another, but the Officail teachings are as clear as day. popes were having illegitimate children, as were most priests, they were burning people, forbidding people to read the bible...etc.I love that one! Actually, it makes me want to cry. What a crock. Anywhoo. There is no objective evidence to support the illegitimate children thing. They may have, they may not have. We don't base our beliefs on what the sinners inside do! We base our beliefs on what the Church teaches. Jesus told the crowed "do as they preach, not as they do", in regards to the Pharisees. He didn't tell them, start a "reformed" Jewish belief. If priests and popes were having children, then they are culpable for their sins, because their faith tells them NOT to! As for "forbidding people to read the Bible", that is another myth. The Bible, up until the 15th century was Handwritten by Catholic monks. So, no duh people didn't have their own personal copies. Unless the monks could speed write! But the early Christians were read the Bible at mass. In fact, if you attend Sunday mass, you will have "heard" the Bible in 3 years. 1 year if you attend daily mass. And the Bible wasn't even compiled until the year 400! So, technically, people didn't have a Bible for the first 400 years! That is what is so unique about Catholicism. We don't base our beliefs on the Bible! The Bible is based on our beliefs! LOL. The Early Church wasn't based on a Bible, was it? Christ never wrote a thing! but then Martin Luther came along, and he made the true, original points of christianity resurface out of that corrupt mess. I wont bash Martin Luther on his original intent. He saw some Church leaders doing things that the official Catholic Teachings forbid (namely, selling indulgences). And he wanted it stopped. Unfortunatly, Luther didn't have patience, and he couldn't wait for the Church (official Church that is) to stop these guys. So he left. The rest is history. The Church fixed itself (because others who had noted the errors also faught against it - but stayed). But Luther, mad at not making progress dug himself a deeper hole. He decided to re-invent the wheele. There is a lot about Luther you prolly don't know. I'll leave that for another time. He set people back straight. Interestingly enough, not even Protestants believe this, if that's the case. Luther LOVED Mary, and believed in her perpetual virginity. Luther knew that the Bible had come from the Catholic Church. Luther actually had a twisted view of the Eucharist, but he did believe that Jesus physically became present (in and around) the bread. Most Protestants only think it's symbolic. If Luther set people Straight, then why are there 30,000 denominations all having one conflicting doctrine or another? Hmmmm. There now, I hope that wasn't too harsh. :D Monica, you have a great heart! Don't be affraid to ask anything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 Again, i don't want to offend any one or bash catholicism, i'm just giving my honest opinion. OK?? Mother Teresa might be an exception, she might be saved. Even SOME catholics are saved, even though they follow your faith. Maybe i should add that to my signature, I DON'T MEAN TO OFFEND ANY CATHOLICS OR CATHOLIC-BASH, JUST GIVING WHAT I KNOW AND READY TO LEARN SOME MORE lol Monica, No problem. I'm not offended at all! It's hard to put a voice to words typed. So my writing may sound cold. But I'm overjoyed at being able to dialogue with you! I'm actually smiling! See. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D Don't worry about offending anyone. And also, please don't think that I'm mad. My frustration isn't with you at all. It just amazes me sometimes what is said about us. But you seem cool. In fact, your male counter part is here (although he's taken!), Bro Adam. I wonder where he is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted October 30, 2003 Author Share Posted October 30, 2003 Welcome to phatmass Monica. I'm dUSt, the webmaster. The bathroom is down the hall to the right, and we like to eat tacos, so very tasty and good for you,. Potlucks every Tuesday. Now... what is the source of that "Jesuit Oath"? Where did you find that? Was it on the Jesuits website, or from a Jesuit source? Thanks dUST!! I found the oath on this website: http://www.reformation.org/jesuit_oath_in_action.html but just because i didn't want to type it. It's really in a book called THE SECRET HISTORY OF THE JESUITS (you can buy it here http://www.chick.com/catalog/books/0191.asp ), which, you guessed it, we also read! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 but also in the modern days, there were VERY sinful popes! For example Pius XII, who completely supported hitler. and i'm not makingg this up, we read a book in class approved by historians called "Hitler's pope: The Secret History of Pius XII" or something like that. And here's a website: http://www.chick.com/bc/1989/holocaustorin...OM=Catholicpage I don't mean to come off rude, but don't trust anything you read from Jack Chick (chick.com). There are so many lies it's almost laughable. I'm serious when I say this, but learning about Catholics by reading Chick, is like trying to learn about black people by listening to the KKK. You'll never get a fair or truthful perspective. If you only learn one thing from phatmass, I hope it's this: check your sources. Before believing something regarding the Church, please be fair and read about what the Church teaches from the source. The Catholic Catechism is available online several different places. Here's one: http://www.nccbuscc.org/catechism/text/index.htm God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 but also in the modern days, there were VERY sinful popes! For example Pius XII, who completely supported hitler. and i'm not makingg this up, we read a book in class approved by historians called "Hitler's pope: The Secret History of Pius XII" or something like that. And here's a website: http://www.chick.com/bc/1989/holocaustorin...OM=Catholicpage Jack Chick is the original catholic hater. Just about anything you read there will be an outright lie or distortion. The pope did NOT support Hitler and in fact saved thousands of Jews. The book is a book of fiction, ask any Jew who lived thru the War. Israel l gave the Pope a medal for saving jews and called him a "Righteous gentile" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted October 30, 2003 Author Share Posted October 30, 2003 (edited) Okay... I'll be gentle! I can guarantee that NONE of these sources were from actual Catholics. It's just interesting to me how Protestant teachers, etc. will tell you what Catholics believe, and then immediately tell you that "if you go to a real Catholic and ask what they believe, they will lie to you." This then sets you up to NEVER learn what we really teach! It makes no sence that we would "hide" what we "really" believe. Like, say for instance that Catholics really worshipped Satan. If it was such a "secret" that not even I "a Catholic" know it, then how is it that someone completely outside the Church has gotten hold of this secret! I hate to admit it, but you're right on that one....they DO tell us that catholics will lie to us... but that's because (not my words) "catholics wish to conceal their corruption in order to keep their church going" or something like that. Glossing it over. Edited October 30, 2003 by dUSt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 Monica if you wanted to learn about medicine would you go to a witchdocter? HArdly! If you want to go about Catholics you go ask CATHOLICs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 (edited) Monica do you think the Catholic Church would have lasted 2000 years, with people going to the lions and concentration camps to die for it, if God wasn't protecting it? Edited October 30, 2003 by cmotherofpirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 For example Pius XII, who completely supported hitler. Ah, there are two sides to every story... And I'm not possitive of our side. Nonetheless, a Pope isn't the Church. So if a Pope for example slitts the throats of all non-Catholics; that isn't a statement on what the Church teaches. The Church clearly teaches that this is wrong! So, one cannot assume what the Church teaches based on what EVEN the Pope may personally due. We can drag up dirt on Luther, Calvin, Smyth, et al and make assumptions based on that, but that isn't fair. A Church is as good as it's teachings, not it's people. We are ALL sinners. But Christ promised that His ONE Church would have the guidance of the Spirit in ALL TRUTH. And the Lord promised that "the gates of hell will not prevail against it". Therefore, while the Church is made up of sinners, the Church will never officially TEACH in error on faith and morals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 I say just go to the bookstore and buy yourself a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church . . . its where Catholics learn what the Church teaches I can just picture how ridiculous this is, like we're all lying to each other and some guy is hiding in a little vault somewhere laughing because he pulled off the biggest spoof in history . .. mind you this guy is 2000 years old and part of his spoof includes the Bible . . . Ridiculous . . . it just doesn't make any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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