Religious Life

[Myles Domini]

We're all very aware of the shortage in secular clergy that seems to be prevalent throughout the West. However, the number of vocations to the religious life are declining at any even faster rate. Is this symtomatic of the secularisation of Western culture or is the decreasing number of religious itself a cause of the decline in priestly vocations? Moreover, what does it bode for the future of the Church? Is the decline in religious vocations a bad omen or the ashes of a phoenix that will give birth to a revival through the innovations of the New Evangelisation i.e. movements, personal prelatures etc?

Your thoughts, please? :thinking:

Edited March 4, 2005 by Myles

[Melchisedec]

The protestant faith will continue to grow and I dont see any change in the decline of men entering the priesthood. I think the rigidity or difficulty in the life of a priest and the more liberal lifestyle of a protestant pastor is the key here. From what I gather, the demands of a priest are greater than a pastors. I can see more young people interested in a pastors lifestyle than one of a priest.

[Aloysius]

[img]http://www.rentacar-usa.com/rental-car-hire/phoenixbird_phoenix.jpg[/img]

It's on the rise...

but yeah, it is both caused by the secularization AND the cause of increasing secularization.

The protestant faith is breaking up. It is completely disunified and will eventually not agree on anything and dissolve into very very different religions (as if they're not already different enough)

[Dave]

Religious orders that remain completely orthodox are seeing a tremendous number of new vocations, while those where heterodoxy is rampant aren't seeing any vocations.

[Gal. 5:22,23]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Mar 4 2005, 11:38 AM'] The protestant faith is breaking up. It is completely disunified and will eventually not agree on anything and dissolve into very very different religions (as if they're not already different enough) [/quote]
I would say, as a member of the Protestant faith for the last 30 some odd years, that it is not the Protestant faith per se that is breaking up, but denominationalism. Increasingly, certain denominations are becoming rather irrelevant. Who wants to be a part of a church/denomination that denies the deity of Christ, the notion that the Scriptures are inspired by the Holy Spirit and, that teaches there are many paths to God? Answer: those who do not want to be accountable to God. Just make up your own personal God. However, you don't have to do much research to see that these denominations are losing members by the truckloads.

I have lived in the Northeast, Midwest, and the South. What I have observed is that those (Protestant) churches who are experiencing the most growth are those who are conservative - and nondenominational. There is a big move among some Protestants to have a "Kingdom" mentality, not a denominational one. Finally, many - like me - are burdened by the number of Christian denominations and realize that this is NOT what Christ came to establish. Be patient with us my friends, and never stop praying for us. There are many, Lord willing, coming your way!

[Socrates]

The overall decline in vocations can be seen as a bad thing and symptomatic of the secularization of the West.
However, I think corruption of various kinds in the clergy (heterodox priests, homosexual priests, worldly priests, etc.) was a huge cause of the many of the Church's problems. As Dave pointed out, vocations are growing in orthodox orders, seminaries, etc. I think it is better to have a "few good men" (to borrow from the Marine Corps) in the priesthood, than a lot of bad men, who ultimately hurt the Church. Christ began with 12 men who evangelized the world. Where there is faith, there are vocations.

In reply to Melchisedec's statement, protestantism is actually declining in the U.S. The only kinds of protestantism that are growing are evangelical and other "consevative" forms of protestantism. Liberal protestantism (which is now pretty much secular humanism wrapped up in religious trappings) will die out.

[God Conquers]

There is not a decline in Vocations.

There is a decline in those calls being answered.

And from what I can see this is improving, especially among orthodox dioceses and orders.

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

It's not a bad omen for the church. It's a bad omen for the rest of the world.

[argent_paladin]

I was a religious (Dominican) for four years and thought about this issue a great deal.

1. Vocations are not at historic lows, but simply lower compared to the historic highs of the 1950s and 1960s. After the carnage and horror of the Second World War, many decided to enter religous life. Nothing so focuses the mind on the truly important things than war and struggle.

2. Also, these were the years of the baby boom and family size averaged about 5 children. This meant than Catholic families could "lose" a daughter and a son to religious life and still have enough children to support the parents in their old age and to continue the family line. Today, we are averaging about two children, so children must make a very difficult decision to leave their parents "alone" or to enter religious life.

3. Relgious vocations are much more variable than secular ones. Parishes always need a certain number of priests but religous can take many or few and still do ok. Many religous orders are flourishing and I think that the total numbers will start increasing soon.

4. The role of women in society has changed, as has the role of government. Women used to be limited in their career choices. Becoming a sister was an attractive option for intelligent, faithful, energetic women. But many orders have all but eliminated the religious aspect of their vocation, focusing on the social goods that they provide. But then, why would any woman become a sister, when she can do as much good in society by being a teacher, nurse, etc but not be burdened by the vows? When many congregations lost their way from being centered on the faith, they lost their reason to do what they do. Also, government is increasingly taking on the role of what religion once did, providing health care, education, poverty relief, etc.

5. We are becoming a more selfish culture. The lack of vocations is a symptom. But the crisis isn't just in religious life. We have a crisis in the vocation of marriage. People are getting married later, divorcing at a historically high rate, living together, having sex before marriage, using contraception, etc. It is not isolated to religious vocations by a long shot.

[God Conquers]

Excellent post argent.

You are correct about the fact that this is not a historic low... in fact, although maybe a little low, that Chrurch could be wholly functional with many less (although clearly not to be desired)

Also, the shying away from true religious vocation and outlook among religious orders: who wants to be a nurse-sister when they do EXACTLY the same thing and act exactly the same way as any other nurse?

Our culture, even as Catholics many times, is not vocation-minded.

[argent_paladin]

[quote name='Melchisedec' date='Mar 4 2005, 11:33 AM'] The protestant faith will continue to grow and I dont see any change in the decline of men entering the priesthood. I think the rigidity or difficulty in the life of a priest and the more liberal lifestyle of a protestant pastor is the key here. From what I gather, the demands of a priest are greater than a pastors. I can see more young people interested in a pastors lifestyle than one of a priest. [/quote]
Both your statements are factually incorrect. Protestants are not growing much as a percent of the world's population or compared to Catholics. The amazing growth among some small denominations is compensated by continuted hemmoraging in large denominations.
[quote]
Mormons atop growth list

Religion News Service

Mormons are the fastest-growing church in the United States and rose to No. 4 of the country's Top 10 churches, according to annual church membership figures compiled by the National Council of Churches.

The 2005 Yearbook of American and Canadian Churches reports a 1.71 percent growth rate for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in 2003, for a total U.S. membership of 5.5 million.

The 2005 Yearbook (based on data from 2003) found 163 million members in 217 denominations.

The Roman Catholic Church, with 67 million members, continues its strong lead as No. 1, with the third-highest growth rate of 1.28 percent. Southern Baptists maintained their No. 2 spot with 16.4 million and a growth rate of 1.18 percent.

The United Methodist Church, with 8.2 million U.S. members, held on to No. 3. The Mormons bumped the Church of God in Christ out of last year's No. 4 slot to fifth place, with 5.4 million members.

The figures continue to look bleak for the country's mainline Protestant churches -- Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians and others -- who have been overtaken by Mormons, Pentecostals and black churches in recent years.

"Of the top 10 largest churches, only three are mainline Protestant," wrote the Yearbook's editor, the Rev. Eileen Lindner. "These three churches are also the only churches in the top 10 ranking to report an overall decline in membership. In the top 25 church groups, only six are mainline Protestant, and all of them report an overall loss of membership for the reporting year."

Lindner noted that Pentecostals, generally speaking, are shadowing the fast growth rates seen among Catholics and Mormons.

Largest U.S. churches

1. Roman Catholic Church: 67.2 million.

2. Southern Baptist Convention: 16.4 million.

3. United Methodist Church: 8.2 million.

4. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: 5.5 million.

5. Church of God in Christ: 5.4 million.

6. National Baptist Convention USA: 5 million.

7. Evangelical Lutheran Church in America: 4.9 million.

8. National Baptist Convention of America: 3.5 million.

9. Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.): 3.2 million.

10. Assemblies of God: 2.7 million.

[url="http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/living/religion/10997090.htm"]http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/livi...on/10997090.htm[/url]
[/quote]

So, there are more Catholics than the other nine churches combined. And all the mainline Protestant churches in the top 25 are falling. The ones that are growing quickly are small. The Catholic Church is growing faster than the Southern Baptists, IN AMERICA!! And you can't say that that is because the SBC is soft or lost its way. And I don't consider the Mormon Church as protestant. The Reformation is over. Luther, Calvin and Henry VIII have lost.

Oh, and its not necessarily true that the demands of a priest are greater than a protestant minister. But it is true that the demands required to become a priest are far more demanding that to become a minister, which simply requires the ability to rent a room and to talk. To be a priest reqires years of schooling and training and self-examination. I think I could become a protestant minister online in about five minutes and for $10. So of course there won't ever be a protestant vocation crisis.

And as for "men entering the priesthood" here is what the Vatican has to say:
[quote]Seminarians' "Boom"
Perhaps the biggest surprise of the statistics are the vocations to the priesthood. In 1978 there were 63,882 seminarians; at present there are 108,517, an increase of 69.87%. The increase in Africa and Asia, in fact, is incredible. Over the last twenty years, these two continents have seen an increase of 238.50% and 124.01% respectively. In all the continents there has been a decisive increase in vocations, with the exception of Oceania, where the figures went from 784 to 797 seminarians. Even Europe has seen an increase of 16.47% (from 23,915 to 27,853), resulting from the rebirth of Christianity in the East and the end of the vocational crisis. America has become the great seedbed of the Catholic Church's vocations. At present, it has 35,000 seminarians; twenty years ago it had 22,011.[/quote]
Source: 1997 Statistical Yearbook of the Holy See

This year there are [url="http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=65641"]even more.[/url] This link also shows that Catholicism is growing rapidly around the world.

[argent_paladin]

GodConquers:

Exactly! I would rather have 1000 faithful, prayerful and holy nuns than 100,000 bitter, cynical, secular, worldly (non-habit wearing), sisters. It is quality, not quantity. As we saw from the scandals, just a few bad vocations can cause much harm. I am not convinced that the standards are high enough. History shows that if you raise the standards, better people will be attracted to it and it will actually get bigger.
Just look at the Marines or the old Jesuits. They were elite and had the highest standards. People were clamoring to get in because if you serve your country out of love, or your God out of love, you want to make the biggest sacrifice possible. That is why I never understood religious congregations that attempted to attract vocations by watering down the life. If I wanted to live alone, never have prayer in common, never wear a habit, do my own work, etc why would I join a religious congregation in the first place?