aloha918 Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 I have experianced many accounts of people condemning others to hell.....and I dont just mean the whole joke "your going to hell"....or even saying it out of anger......i mean seriously 100% that people say that other people are going to hell....both clergy and laity alike i find this very disturbing and not something that should be tollerated we are not God, we shouldn't judge i guess an example would be to say that all pro choice people are going to hell....or all homosexuals......i have heard these things talk like this can lead others away form the faith place your thoughts below.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 [quote name='aloha918' date='Mar 2 2005, 11:08 AM'] I have experianced many accounts of people condemning others to hell.....and I dont just mean the whole joke "your going to hell"....or even saying it out of anger......i mean seriously 100% that people say that other people are going to hell....both clergy and laity alike i find this very disturbing and not something that should be tollerated we are not God, we shouldn't judge i guess an example would be to say that all pro choice people are going to hell....or all homosexuals......i have heard these things talk like this can lead others away form the faith place your thoughts below.......... [/quote] Society has laws, you break those laws and you go to jail. The bible is no different., Many people can say you are going to hell based on what the bible has to say about behaviour. Homosexuality, is a sin. I'm not sure if a homosexual can have grace and go to heaven? So its pretty logical to assume based on the bible and their behaviour that they are going to hell. But true, in your faith only god decides, so maybe it might feel compelled to be merciful to a homosexual and grant it access to heaven. Speculating on that is pointless. If we are to base whether we go to heaven on following the bible. Than I say its logical to assume that people who directly disobey the bible, are definitely prime candidates for hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 Aloha, I couldn't agree with you more. I am so happy that I am not in charge of deciding who my friends marry and who goes to hell. For one (judging by whom my friends marry) I would be horrible at it. For two, I WOULD NEVER GET ANY SLEEP. Melchisidec states [quote]Society has laws, you break those laws and you go to jail. The bible is no different., Many people can say you are going to hell based on what the bible has to say about behaviour. Homosexuality, is a sin. I'm not sure if a homosexual can have grace and go to heaven?[/quote] You are right about a couple of things. Homosexuality (specifically homosexual acts) are a sin. A homosexual does not have the grace to go to heaven. That sounds a little harsh when its that specific. Let's broaden it out. Instead of "homosexual" lets use a better word. A sinner does not have the grace to go to heaven. Yup that reads better. None of us have the grace to go to heaven. Grace is the gift that God gives us. The rules established by the Church are inspired by the Holy Spirit. These rules are infallible. However, (and this gets overlooked ALL THE TIME kids) I am solely responsible for applying these rules to my life and my life alone. I do not have the power (thank God) to apply these rules to anyone else. My salvation, my responsibility. Your salvation, your responsibility. Can I pray for you? Yup. Can I try to be an example to you? Yup. Am I called to judge you and your sinfulness? No way jose. The Church gives me no authority. On the flip side, the Church gives me the authority and the responsibility to love as many as I possibly can. Which btw is a lot more fun then condemning them to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 We can judge actions to be wrong or right, we cannot however, judge hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 All we can do, and have a duty to do, is warn people that certain behavoir puts them in danger of hell. these are grave sins which if one is culpable for them are mortal sins that kill the soul. We cannot judge their culpability. We cannot judge their eternal fate after death. We can tell them they are committing a grave sin and it puts them in danger of hell. In fact, we have a duty to. One of the 7 spiritual works of mercy is "Admonish the sinner" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 Sometimes, the only way for someone to chang eis when someone tells them they are on the path to hell. While not a definitive statement about their future, it gets people thinking. It may not be right to tell people where they are going, but sometimes telling them is the only way to get them to change. God didn't give us the power to judge people, but he did give us the power to think. It isn't wrong to tell someone you know who is living a scandelous lifestyle they are going to hell, because their actions seem to profess it. God bless, Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 hot stuff, I see much wisdom in your writings. Unfortunately, Michaelfilo when we condemn people to Hell it is an act of judging. It can also be viewed as an act of possessing infinite wisdom that only Christ can hold. By stating that we know somebody is going to Hell, is the same as stating that we have the final say in the matter. How can one know something unless they actually have the power to pass the final judgment? For example, as Catholics we believe in the forgiveness of our sins through confession. So, is it possible that a person lives a life full of sin, and then right before they die come upon the grace of Christ and be allowed to enter into heaven? Yes, the answer is always yes. As many have stated before on this website, “heaven is not a democracy, but it is a dictatorship.” Thus, the possibility of a person knowing the final judgment cannot exist within us, because our wisdom is extremely limited to that of Christ. As hot stuff has stated, we can encourage people to live a better life. We can try to correct them while they are still here with us. We can always love them, no matter how strong the devil has a hold of them. However, we cannot pass judgment on them, for if we do then we are to be judged as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JeffCR07 Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Please note that there is a difference between saying that someone is walking the path to Hell and judging the soul of that person as condemned to Hell. A person walking the wrong path can change the way he is walking, just as one who is a teerrible sinner can change their life, through the help of Grace. It is our obligation to point out sin and evil, and, when we see a pattern, to point out that pattern. Moreover, it is our obligation to tell others of the consequences of sin, that being, Hell. It is completely outside of our ability, however, to positively condemn and judge a person as going to Hell. The objective nature of an evil action can, and must be judged. The subjective culpability of that action is outside our ability to comprehend. This simply serves to reinforce the fact that, because we cannot know subjective culpability, we must all the more fight to prevent the objective evil. Your Brother In Christ, Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corban711 Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 in my experience when i see someone tell another that they could go to hell for committing a sin...they immediately shut the person off and do not listen or take the person seriously. if however, you sit down and talk to them, tell them it is seriously wrong and you are worried for them, they tend to listen better and in some cases even change their ways right then and there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 when i was pro-choice, my friends didn't tell me i was going to hell...they said "i'll pray for you"....prayers work a lot better...cuz now i'm pro-life 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 When faced with a choice always choose life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 [quote name='Lil Red' date='Mar 18 2005, 04:11 PM'] when i was pro-choice, my friends didn't tell me i was going to hell...they said "i'll pray for you"....prayers work a lot better...cuz now i'm pro-life 100% [/quote] lil Red that is exactly right. There is a direct connection between prayer and salvation. Not just our salvation but of those who do not see God's Love for them. Prayer is the most powerful instrument at our disposal. Lil Red seems to be a practical example of that. [quote] hot stuff, I see much wisdom in your writings[/quote] Timothy I sincerely thank you for the compliment. Most of the time I'm fairly dim. Sometimes I get lucky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argent_paladin Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 This is from Catholic Answers and talks about false understandings of the term anathema: 1. An anathema sentenced a person to hell. This is not the case. Sentencing someone to hell is a power that is God’s alone, and the Church cannot exercise it. 2. An anathema was a sure sign that a person would go to hell. Again, not true. Anathemas were only warranted by very grave sins, but there was no reason why the offender could not repent, and those who repent aren’t damned. 3. An anathema was a sure sign that a person was not in a state of grace. This is not true for two reasons: (a) The person may have repented since the time the anathema was issued, and (b) the person may not have been in a state of mortal sin at the time the anathema was issued. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't make sure people are aware of the existence of Satan, hell, sin, etc. I think in general most in the Church are erring on the side of not talking about hell rather than condemning people to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy the Ninja Posted March 20, 2005 Share Posted March 20, 2005 You know as Godparent to several adults and children, Don John has many times warned his charges that their actions were sinful - and he's been right to do so. As their Godfather he is charged with that responsibility. Don John (and myself included) would never tell John Q Public they were going to hell, or even if what they were doing were sinful unless we were asked (yeah right!), or unless John Q were messing with one of our godchildren or friends. But we can pray for them for we do not know their hearts or minds. Just their actions. And we can't tell our godchildren or friends or family they're going to hell, because we do not know their hearts or minds, but I believe we have a responsibility to those three groups of people to remind them of their actions. There probably is a larger responsibility to JQ Public too, but living with our Public in this country makes warnings or even gentle reminders a "hostile" thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catholictothecore Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 absolutely no one has the right to say to somone they are going to hell. Even God waits until the end for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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