PedroX Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 Dust's mom posts on here? Gosh, I would have been much nicer to him if I would have known that! Tithing should be money, and time. More time if you make less money is fine, but sometimes its hard to heat the church just with volunteers! peace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 (edited) I just happen to be flipping channels today and I caught this guy named Mark Chironna on. His whole message and ministry seems to be based on getting people to pay tithes. Something he said confused me though. Basically his attitude was that you ruin yourself eternally if you dont pay em. More specifically he said poor people ruin themselves more because they dont want to be broke so they dont pay. One other thing, He says wealthy folks are better off because they dont have to worry about money and they pay thiers. So basically if we cant pay we need to improve our job and wealth so we can. Now heres my question- Isnt harder for the richman to enter than he who has nothing? P.S. I know the station is TCC owned by TBN. Oh and I almost forgot, Benny Hinn was saving Tammy faye Baker on Tbn. I know that guy...I went to one of his small gatherings. So I got pretty close to him, at a church he "founded". At one of the nights, he asked if anyone wanted to speak in tongues and be filled with the Holy Spirit. Of course, a lot of people went up...and he said that one must "try" and "reach for it". So in a sense, he was preaching the OPPOSITE of what it's really suppost to be. Basically implying, that you will NOT get the gift of tongues unless you reach and take it. So he had everyone *trying* to speak in tongues, and eventually...out of fear by the way he was talking to them all, they all were speaking in tongues (supposely). It just felt very weird and wrong. Instead of having the Holy Spirit move you, you must try and "will it". Note: I remember what happened, but I don't remember all he exactly said. At least you got the basic picture. Edited October 30, 2003 by Paladin D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 You know . . . everyone always says "titing doesn't mean just money" and that's all fine and good . . . but it DOES MEAN MONEY!!! We should tithe our time, yes. And if we are on a tight budget we might have to tithe just our time, but Tithing means money. When God asked for Israels 10% he wanted the first fruits of their "income" which was crops. He wants us to recognize that everything we have comes from Him. that he is the 'source' of our income and that he wants us to offer back the first fruits of our income to him, in service of his church. I don't reccommend taking your 10% and burning it on the altar of sacrifice . . . but the altar of sacrifice now is the needs of our brothers and sisters . . . 'When did we see you naked or hungry or thirsty . . ." And so our 10% (and I realize what a sacrifice it is) should go to God to acknowledge that 100% of what we have comes from him. Some priest, it might have been Fr. Larry Richards, says "Gee, Isn't God Generous . . . 100% of what we have is His . . . but he lets us keep 90%. That's a great deal!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP2Iloveyou Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 I agree, tithing should be money. I am among the worst at this, so I have NO room to talk. However, God will NEVER be outdone in generosity. If we give to Him, we will get back so much more and I mean in this life. I could tell so many stories of people giving money to the Church and receiving back more, but I'd be here all night. I think it is also important to give time, but to do so only becaue you "have no money" is no a good enough reason, IMO. Remember in the Gospel where Christ says the poor woman who put in one little coin gave more than all the wealthy people combined? What would that preacher say to that? Or, for that matter, what would he say if the Church started selling indulgences again? :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 I too feel funny about the whole "give 10% so God will bless you with a Corvette" mentality. Yes, I'd like to be materially successful, but when I make out my check for the parish envelope I don't say "OK, God, I'm giving a nice check here, now I expect my stock portfolio to go through the roof". I believe in tithing out of either duty (remember, supporting the church is a commandment of the church) or appreciation for a blessing received from God (financial or otherwise), and failure to return is a sign of unappreciation. As far as the 10% figure: 1) I've been reading in various Catholic publications about how we should try to achieve a 10% tithing level 2) There is at least one Catholic parish I know of - St. Sabina in Chicago - that preaches tithing 3) I remember seeing on parish envelopes when I was growing up that they request "one hour's wages" which is roughly 2.5% 4) In 2 Cor. 8:12-13 (NAB 1970) it says "The willingness to give should accord with one's means, not go beyond them. The relief of others ought not to impoverish you; there should be a certain equality". That is why I personally don't believe the 10% figure is still set in stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 My grandpa used to work 10 hour days and he when he would go over to his office (which was a gas station thing, kinda hard to explain) he would sit and talk with people and no one would come over for the 1st hour . . . it was his "God Hour" and he meant it literally . . . he would pray and the money from that hour would go to the Church . . . (not literally from that hour, but 10% of his earnings) . . . my grandpa is pretty cool though . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foundsheep Posted October 30, 2003 Author Share Posted October 30, 2003 4) In 2 Cor. 8:12-13 (NAB 1970) it says "The willingness to give should accord with one's means, not go beyond them. The relief of others ought not to impoverish you; there should be a certain equality". That is why I personally don't believe the 10% figure is still set in stone. I believe your right. Tithe actually means one tenth and its in the book of Malachi. So I guess this would replace that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foundsheep Posted October 30, 2003 Author Share Posted October 30, 2003 That guy is nuts. He is a former Catholic from new york and he has that crazy evangelical glare in his eyes when he's hypnotizing his congregation though the t.v. screen. We tithe b/c it's in scripture, and we are called to support our pastors and our church community. The apostles dropped everything they owned and followed Jesus and I think that it is that example we are supposed to follow- not necessarily selling all our stuff, but giving away what we have that is bountiful to the poor and people who are lacking. This includes time and works too because money is not always the most important thing. The guy actually said that the disciples and apostles did not take a vow of poverty. Basically that they had money they just didnt want to deposit it in the jewish temples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 THe great one said it best: you don't give til it helps, you give til it hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 This is hard for most.... Some people think 10% is what they should tithe. In reality... it is not based on percentage. It's based on how much we have/make... but not extra... For example: If someone is making 100k/yr, and only are supporting themselves and a spouse, then they need to give more than 10%.... If someone is making 10k/yr... then 10% is probably to much for them to give. We should learn from the example of the widow.... The widow that gave her last two pence (kinda like a penny) gave more than the others. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Remember in the Gospel where Christ says the poor woman who put in one little coin gave more than all the wealthy people combined? What would that preacher say to that? Or, for that matter, what would he say if the Church started selling indulgences again? The Church has never sold indulgences. Certain individual members of the Church may have been guilty as charged. The Church is the sinless Bride of Christ, his Mystical Body. "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the church, and handed himself over for her to sanctify her, cleansing her by the bath of water with the word, that he might present to himself the church in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish." Eph 5:25-26. In the Holy Father's apologies, he always says we are sorry for the individuals within the Church who (fill in the blank). He never says the Church is guilty of wrongdoing. Pax et bonum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
immaculata Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 What about teenagers? I'm still registered at my parish under my family, and my parents tithe their income. When I got my part-time job, some of my friends told me that I should give part of my income, too. What do you guys think about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 What about teenagers? I'm still registered at my parish under my family, and my parents tithe their income. When I got my part-time job, some of my friends told me that I should give part of my income, too. What do you guys think about that? Yes.... are we to build up treasures here or in Heaven... Are we to fill our every want? or to help those in need? Katholikos, Some here might not understand what an indulgence is... Laymens terms for some who do not know... an Indulgence is a word used to describe the 'measurement of good' that we do. As Christ said, we must pay every last penny. The easiest way to explain it is by example.... Would you not say that giving 50% of our income to charity is better than giving 10%? Or helping feed the poor for 4 hours is better than doing it for 2 hours? Yes, of course it is... therefore the 50% scenario is worth "goodie points" than giving 10%, and the 4 hrs scenario gets more goodie points also. For those who wish to know more about Indulgences, here are some resources: http://www.catholic-pages.com/dir/indulgences.asp http://www.catholic.com/library/Primer_on_...Indulgences.asp http://www.catholic.com/library/Myths_Abou...Indulgences.asp God Bless, Your Servant in Christ, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP2Iloveyou Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 The Church has never sold indulgences. Certain individual members of the Church may have been guilty as charged. The Church is the sinless Bride of Christ, his Mystical Body. "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the church, and handed himself over for her to sanctify her, cleansing her by the bath of water with the word, that he might present to himself the church in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish." Eph 5:25-26. In the Holy Father's apologies, he always says we are sorry for the individuals within the Church who (fill in the blank). He never says the Church is guilty of wrongdoing. Pax et bonum. I realize the Church didn't sell indulgences. That is what we have been accused of by Protestants though, quite possibly by this same pastor. I was being sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 QUOTE FROM JP2 I realize the Church didn't sell indulgences. That is what we have been accused of by Protestants though, quite possibly by this same pastor. I was being sarcastic. --------------- Sorry I didn't understand that, JP2. I'm always ready to jump on my soap box . . . :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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