Melchisedec Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Is abortion wrong in your eyes because when a baby is first formed in the womb it is endowed a soul? Or is it because its a human life that deserves rights? Which one supercedes the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 I was pro-life before I was a practicing Catholic. Size and location are not a reason to committ murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 It's because of both. However the fact that it is human and has a right to life supercedes the fact that it has a soul. Medieval theologians have speculated and debated whether the fetus is immediately infused by God with an immortal soul at conception or some later point, yet they all agreed that abortion was a grievous sin. In light of modern science, it is now generally agreed by the Church that the unborn has a soul from conception. Atheists do not beleive in any immortal soul. Does this make it right to kill people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted March 1, 2005 Author Share Posted March 1, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Mar 1 2005, 01:20 PM'] Atheists do not beleive in any immortal soul. Does this make it right to kill people? [/quote] Uhmmm..no lol. No more the right to kill someone than if I thought say, they were possesed by a demon. But is a newly conceived fetus a life? To someone who beleives in a soul its a resounding yes because to them, that is its life. To someone who doesn't it becomes a question of when is that hunk of genetic flesh, a human. I seriously do not know. But I wouldn't call an abortion of a 1 month old fetus murder either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 it has 46 chromosomes and all the genetic information it needs within itself to be human. its very eye color and hair color is already determined. whether it is right or left handed is already determined. think of every feature you got from your mom and dad. all those features for every person are determined by the genetic information an embryo holds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Mar 1 2005, 03:29 PM'] . But I wouldn't call an abortion of a 1 month old fetus murder either. [/quote] Its a genetically unique human, its alive and its innocent, so if you kill it, its murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 [quote]To someone who doesn't it becomes a question of when is that hunk of genetic flesh, a human. I seriously do not know. But I wouldn't call an abortion of a 1 month old fetus murder either. [/quote] By the time the fetus is a month old, it already has a beating heart pumping its own blood (often a different type than the mother's). Any scientist would agree this is a living organism. And of course, it is human. If it is not human, what is it? And the fact is that most abortions are performed much later than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 It is ridiculous to believe that fetal organisms are some unique form of life. A chicken in an egg is still a chicken, not some other anumal. A fetal pig is a pig, and animal rights activists would not have high school students dissecting them. A fetal human is a human. "Person" is a term which is INCLUSIVE, and not EXCLUSIVE. Any and every organism with the genetic make-up of a human being, at any atge of life, regardless of dissability, place and size is a person. This does not exclude anything else from being a person... like if you believe in aliens or angels. From the moment of conception, you have a unique human person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted March 1, 2005 Author Share Posted March 1, 2005 [quote name='God Conquers' date='Mar 1 2005, 02:10 PM'] A fetal pig is a pig, and animal rights activists would not have high school students dissecting them. [/quote] Thats an excellent point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnsspivey Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Mar 1 2005, 01:20 PM'] It's because of both. However the fact that it is human and has a right to life supercedes the fact that it has a soul. Medieval theologians have speculated and debated whether the fetus is immediately infused by God with an immortal soul at conception or some later point, yet they all agreed that abortion was a grievous sin. In light of modern science, it is now generally agreed by the Church that the unborn has a soul from conception. Atheists do not beleive in any immortal soul. Does this make it right to kill people? [/quote] Attempt not to speak for atheists, dear. Some atheists do believe in a soul. However, some people also believe that animals have souls. All those who eat meat are murderers. Yet, for some reason, I've yet to hear an apology from any of you. *shrug* Since it's something that can't be proven only speculation can exist. Since only speculation can exist, it's a personal decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 what about the fact that all the genetic information was there in the embryo that is in the adult? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnsspivey Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Aluigi' date='Mar 1 2005, 04:01 PM'] what about the fact that all the genetic information was there in the embryo that is in the adult? [/quote] Er...what about it? Edited March 1, 2005 by burnsspivey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duc_In_Altum Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Modern research is continually laying down the absolute truth that the life amassed in this multicellular organism, known as a fetus, is a HUMAN life. Most accomplished, educated, and impartial modern scientists and in greater numbers are agreeing to this truth. The particular developmental stages that currently serve as the guidelines for whether or not an abortion is legal are being pushed back earlier and earlier in the pregnancy. Recently, the ban on partial birth abortion was a major turning point that makes it easier to consider banning late term abortion, then mid-term and so on. The line will be pushed back to conception because there is no other major developmental landmark during the pregnancy to justify a ban at that point. The outlaw of abortion is inevitable. I'm a microbiology major and am planning for graduate studies. Although my religious convictions convienently support my view, Abortion is murder for scientific reason. The proof exists and more is on the way. Blessed be God. Namuste, -Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreepyCrawler Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 I suppose that I am a hunk of flesh, too, with cells that have 46 chromosomes. Just because an early fetus looks more like a ball than it does to me, it's cells are arranged in the way and exactly where they are supposed to be for that stage in life. The term hunk of flesh is subjective and I'm sure the Nazis could have called Jews hunks of flesh, too, but they would still be guilty of war crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnsspivey Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 [quote name='CreepyCrawler' date='Mar 1 2005, 04:39 PM'] I suppose that I am a hunk of flesh, too, with cells that have 46 chromosomes. Just because an early fetus looks more like a ball than it does to me, it's cells are arranged in the way and exactly where they are supposed to be for that stage in life. The term hunk of flesh is subjective and I'm sure the Nazis could have called Jews hunks of flesh, too, but they would still be guilty of war crimes. [/quote] And the difference between you and a fetus is what? That's right, you aren't a non-sentient growing inside of, feeding off of, and completely dependant on the body of another, sentient, creature. Bodily autonomy is an important legal concept. That we've done so much already to limit it is sad. The government stepping in and saying, 'I'm sorry, your body is no longer yours' is a form of slavery. *waits for flames and gawking stares usually aimed at such statements of personal liberty* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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