One sentence on Tradition and the Magisterium

[hyperdulia again]

"Thanks for a searingly clear post. Discussing the manner we receive communion is a touchstone issue of most Traditionalists who denigrate the Authority of the Magisterium way below the Tradition."

Some one said the above on another (closed) thread. I simply want to say, that the Magisterium is the slave of Tradition; it's only point is to clarify Tradition and to hopeflly do that in a manner that is profitable to the human soul.

[jasJis]

The point was being made that the denigration of the Magisterium went to the extreme point that the Church had no authority to be obeyed unless it was 'old news'. The Church is the Living Word on earth. At one time, Tradition did not have the Canon of Scripture or defined clearly Mary's Immaculate Conception. We must not forget our obligation to follow the Tradition of obedience to the Magisterium of the Church.



2037
The law of God entrusted to the Church is taught to the faithful as the way of life and truth. The faithful therefore have the right to be instructed in the divine saving precepts that purify judgment and, with grace, heal wounded human reason.79 [u]They have the duty of observing the constitutions and decrees conveyed by the legitimate authority of the Church. Even if they concern disciplinary matters, these determinations call for docility in charity.[/u]

[StPiusVPrayForUs]

Galatians 2:11-14
Acts 5:29

"When the Supreme Pontiff pronounces a sentence of excommunication which is unjust or null, it must not be accepted, without, however, straying from the respect due to the Holy See." St. Robert Bellarmine

[Cam42]

[quote]"When the Supreme Pontiff pronounces a sentence of excommunication which is unjust or null, it must not be accepted, without, however, straying from the respect due to the Holy See." St. Robert Bellarmine [/quote]

This does not apply in the motu proprio Ecclesia Dei, however. Archbishop Lefevbre was warned not to act in the manner that he did. He did not heed the warning and was JUSTLY excommunicated, along with the bishops of the SSPX.

He was given every opportunity to recant his position. He did not. That action had consequences and now his disciples must live with the consequences until they recant that position.

The old addage holds true.....Where the Pope is, there is the Church.

[url="http://www.catholicliturgy.com/index.cfm/FuseAction/DocumentContents/Index/2/SubIndex/11/DocumentIndex/395"]Quattuor Abhinc Annos[/url]

Cam42

[Donna]

I disagree that the excommunication is valid, or just. And I don't think Rome thinks it is, either. The phorum will probably not allow for an in depth discussion of this.

[Donna]

Were Catholics living in the 1950's or whenever the Latin Rite Catholics universally used the Missal of Pius V, the "old" catechisms, and the (sound) clergy abided by the Oath Against Modernism, etc... were these disciples of A. Lefebvre?

Would the SSPX stand out among the Church if they existed when the above was the norm?

These are sincere questions.

[Cam42]

[quote]I disagree that the excommunication is valid, or just. And I don't think Rome thinks it is, either. The phorum will probably not allow for an in depth discussion of this[/quote]

Then I suggest that you look at this....

[url="http://www.catholicliturgy.com/index.cfm/FuseAction/documentText/Index/2/SubIndex/11/ContentIndex/331/Start/330"]Apostolic Letter given Motu Proprio: Ecclesia Dei[/url]

I think, Donna, that if we can keep the conversation civil, unlike the last thread, then it is possible to have this discussion.

[quote]Were Catholics living in the 1950's or whenever the Latin Rite Catholics universally used the Missal of Pius V, the "old" catechisms, and the (sound) clergy abided by the Oath Against Modernism, etc... were these disciples of A. Lefebvre?[/quote]

No, of course not, but the SSPX didn't exist until 1 November 1970. And the universal norm in the 1950's was the Missal of Pius V. However, with the reforms of Vatican Council II, the missa normativa became the Missal of Paul VI. This first took effect in 1970, as well.

However, an indult has been given in order to appease those Catholics who feel a draw to the "Tridentine" Mass. This indult is at the diocesan bishop's discretion and it is to be understood that several conditions apply.....the most important....(1) that the Missal of 1962 is to be the only Missal used. (2) those must assent that the missa normativa is the accepted liturgy.

There are other conditions.....

[url="http://www.catholicliturgy.com/index.cfm/FuseAction/DocumentContents/Index/2/SubIndex/11/DocumentIndex/412"]Guidelines for the Celebration of the "Tridentine" Mass [/url]

So, using the documents that I have linked to in this post and previously, support my position and that of the Church.

Cam