God and Morality (Euthryphro)

[Cam42]

vianney....

Who do you have for Faith and Doubt? I had Dr. Thompson.....

Great class, no?

BTW, if Fr. Kennedy is still teaching and still teaching the Lonergan class, take it, it is a fantastic class. You will learn a lot.

Cam42

[Cam42]

I have a couple of thoughts to add, but I will also reserve them.....I am about 95% sure I know where this is leading.

Cam

[argent_paladin]

The false premise hidden in the question is that objective reality (what is) is completely separate from morality (how we ought to be). It would be as if God created the world first and only later decided to make laws about how it should function. But that is not the case.

Perhaps an analogy can be helpful. Suppose you buy a car from Ford. They have an owners manual. It says that for best performance, you should get a tuneup every six months, change the oil, use premium unleaded, etc, etc. Now, would you say that GM is either arbitrary or irrelevant? Did GM just arbitrarily make up these rules of performance? No, that truly will make the car perform as it is designed to perform. Then, is GM irrelevant because even without the manual, the car would still perform at its peak with these rules? Well, no because GM made the car to these specifications, so how could GM be irrelevant?

It is the same with God. God created everything with a purpose in mind, including human beings. When we act in a way that is in harmony with that purpose, we do right, when we act against that purpose, we do wrong. The commands that God gives us are like an owners manual. They tell us how to get the best performance, the most happiness, the greatest joy from our lives.

Acts are wrong, not merely because God says they are wrong but because it goes contrary to how God made us. God says acts are wrong because they are wrong, but they *are* wrong, because that is how God made us. Therefore, God is neither irrelevant nor arbitrary. In creating us, he created us for a purpose, to know and love him. Telling us our purpose is not arbitrary, because it is rooted in what we are, nor is it irrelevant because it is intimately connected to our creation.

[Cam42]

bump

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='vianney' date='Feb 28 2005, 04:02 PM'] Why do not animals have these? [/quote]
Animals do not have the reasoning power of humans.

[argent_paladin]

[quote name='burnsspivey' date='Feb 28 2005, 03:42 PM'] Just to throw a little monism out there:

Good and evil are constructs of the mind. We assign those values to thing that happen. Things that happen just are; they have no inherent value. [/quote]
So, would you say the same thing about sickness and health as concepts? They are just arbitrary and made up? If so, how do we seem to know that a plant, or animal or a person is ill? We seem to know when something is not the way it "should" be.
In the same way, we just know what should be in regards to healthy or good human behavior.

[Cam42]

[quote]Good and evil are constructs of the mind. We assign those values to thing that happen. Things that happen just are; they have no inherent value.[/quote]

That is quite untrue. If that were true...there would be no standard with which to start.

If there was no inherent value in things that are good and bad, then it would be no way for you to make the statement that you do. Because in order to make that judgment, you are assuming that there is a good that is outside of your perception.

In other words, there must be value, in order to assume that there is no value. Because in order to stand in judgment there must be an objective thing to judge.

So, with that being said, what is the objective good by which we start? We call that thing God.

Cam42