Falluja mosque marine escapes charge

[Jaime]

Seriously Phatmasser, answer this.

You are hunting down insurgents house to house. Its the ugliest form of close range combat. A member of your unit (probably a friend of yours) was killed yesterday by an insurgent that feigned being injured and killed him. You're working on three hours of sleep, you find yourself in the exact same situation with an Iraqi claiming to be on your side and injured. You're exhausted, terrified and still getting over the death of one of your unit.

And you see him move.

Can you honestly tell us that there is no chance you would have acted the same as this soldier?


Oh and far as the "best trained soldiers bit" I believe this guy was a reservist. None of these guys were trained for this

[Cam42]

[quote]Can you honestly tell us that there is no chance you would have acted the same as this soldier?[/quote]

That is a great question....I don't know what my answer would be. I guess I would say probably. I have never been in a combat situation, outside of whippin' my little brother in the backyard.....One doesn't know what one will do until placed in that situation. Hopefully the training is extensive enough to handle it, but I doubt a National Guardsman sees that training. Regular Army, probably, Reservist, nope.

Great question.....Himester

Cam

[Phatmasser777]

[quote name='curtins' date='Feb 25 2005, 07:57 PM'] yes the us helped Iraq a long time back when we hated iran but thats 25 30 years ago this is now in the age of global terrorism in a 911 world which you still deny!!!!!!!!! [/quote]
Actually the US was supporting both sides. Numerous CIA Directors and Case Officiers, such as Robert Baer, Robert Steele, have stated, in defiance, that the US Support both Iran and Iraq for economic reasons, IE: Nice high gas prices during the war, more money. Samething is happening now (oil, not supporting opposing armies).

Age of Global Terrorism started during the Cold War with the US and Russia. This 'terrorist' BC is OLD. For the first time, the US got it's own back, and it hit at your heart, your big, great, land of liberty blah blah nation IS WEAK.

[Phatmasser777]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Feb 25 2005, 11:45 PM'] Seriously Phatmasser, answer this.

You are hunting down insurgents house to house. Its the ugliest form of close range combat. A member of your unit (probably a friend of yours) was killed yesterday by an insurgent that feigned being injured and killed him. You're working on three hours of sleep, you find yourself in the exact same situation with an Iraqi claiming to be on your side and injured. You're exhausted, terrified and still getting over the death of one of your unit.

And you see him move.

Can you honestly tell us that there is no chance you would have acted the same as this soldier?


Oh and far as the "best trained soldiers bit" I believe this guy was a reservist. None of these guys were trained for this [/quote]
Well for one. They were in the mosque for over 3-4 minutes previous to the shooting. So there was plenty of 'calming' time. Also orders were given that injuried fighters were in the mosque the day before.


There was/is no excuse.

[Jaime]

[quote] Well for one. They were in the mosque for over 3-4 minutes previous to the shooting. So there was plenty of 'calming' time. Also orders were given that injuried fighters were in the mosque the day before.[/quote]


From MSNBC

[quote]The Marine battalion stormed an unidentified mosque Saturday in southern Fallujah after taking casualties from heavy sniper fire and attacks with rocket-propelled grenades. Ten insurgents were killed and five others were wounded in the mosque and an adjacent building.


When the Marines left to advance farther south, the five wounded Iraqis, none of whose injuries appeared to be life-threatening, were left behind in the mosque for other Marines to evacuate for treatment.

Saturday, however, reports surfaced that mosques in the region had been reoccupied, including the mosque the Marine battalion had stormed the day before. [/quote]

[url="http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6496898/"]article found here[/url]

So again Phatmasser, you are under the impression that the mosque may have been reoccupied, do you think [b]you[/b] could calm yourself down in "a few minutes"?

Edited February 26, 2005 by jaime

[Phatmasser777]

MSNBC is as trustworthy as FOX. There Right-Wing Propagandists. I'd trust one word from MSNBC when they get new management, other than bush!

[Cam42]

Are you saying that MSNBC is right-wing? That is funny!!!!!! Sheesh....

:rotfl:

Cam42

[jasJis]

Troll777,
Wasn't this debunked when a thread was started here earlier? Yes it was.

You call people from Syria and Saudi who come into Iraq and blow themselves up at Iraqi funerals to kill Iraqi mourners 'freedom fighters'? Yes.

Are you purposely misleading, or completely biased, or blinded by hate?

Do you really believe that anyone who applies a modicom of reason or intelligence give you any creedence?

[yiannii]

I saw the recording of the incident myself and I believe that it could have been handeled a better way.

That said I do understant that no one is perfect and I also know that I cannot judge this particular soldier because I was not in his situation - I have not seen and experienced the things he has.

I do think that it was obvious that the soldier wanted to live and was willing to do anything to survive, even tell everything. Watching the video, for some reason, I felt like it was something similar to Vietnam - you know when the soldiers trashed towns etc. I read a book called "The Things They Carried" and I saw how much that war messed with people's heads - is the Iraq war doing the same thing? Instead of not being able to tell the difference between communist and non-communist; rather being scared of every Arab you see because he/she could have a bomb attached to their body.



An answer to one Phatmasser777's questions:
[quote]- Why did the US tell shiites to rise up, then not help them, with them ending up being gassed and slaughtered in the 100,000's?[/quote]

Because the Soviet Union no longer posed as a threat to the US' national interest.



[quote]You know, argent_paladin, it's unfortunate, don't you think, that those who are so quick to criticize our military do so by using a freedom won, by the very military they are criticizing. The ultimate in irony don't you think? Personally, I think we ought to take away the freedom of speech for everyone who is anti-military. It only follows from their premises. The military wins free speech for people. Those who oppose the military logically oppose the rights won by the military. On second thought, we ought to take away their freedom to worship, their ability to go to school, and their right to vote for their own leaders. In addition to the clear desire that (a racist desire if you ask me) that others around the world not enjoy the same freedoms we do here, by logical extensioin, had the U.S. not won any number of wars, our freedoms would be severely limited or non-existant.[/quote]

Only when it was in the US' best interest, lets face it, that is what international politics is all about. Every country does it, doesn't make it right but that's just a fact. I can't stand it when politicians carry on as if they are doing a selfless act when really there are other motives. Please give me some examples of wars the US has won where it didn't benefit the US. I'm not saying you are wrong but I can't think of any at the moment.


I'm sorry if you guys think I am anti-US but I am not. I don't care too much for US politics but I do care how it affects my own side of the world and lets face it, if the US sneezes the rest of the world catches a cold...LOL. That's what you get for being a soul super power.

Edited February 26, 2005 by yiannii

[Jaime]

[quote]Only when it was in the US' best interest, lets face it, that is what international politics is all about. Every country does it, doesn't make it right but that's just a fact. [/quote]

I think in general, you are making a correct statement. But in saying that, I would challenge anyone to tell me what the direct benefits were to the US to join the UN for the war in Bosnia. We have no strong interests in the country and no benefits to us resulted except to stop the slaughter of millions.

You asked for an example.

Taking an objective view of our country is a healthy thing. Its not our right to question those we put in authority, its our responsibility. However, folks like Phatmasser who quote Al jazeera like it was Gospel and ignore other reputable sources are as blind and impotent as those who never question what our government does.

[musturde]

[quote]Only when it was in the US' best interest, lets face it, that is what international politics is all about. Every country does it, doesn't make it right but that's just a fact. I can't stand it when politicians carry on as if they are doing a selfless act when really there are other motives. Please give me some examples of wars the US has won where it didn't benefit the US. I'm not saying you are wrong but I can't think of any at the moment.[/quote]

I agree with you on this. America usually does what's of its best interest. Iraq may have posed a threat to us? I doubt this whole bloodshed would actually be for oil.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

[quote name='Phatmasser777' date='Feb 25 2005, 08:51 PM'] For one, I'd have to give:

- My Face (which would go into a database, for future 'recognition' )
- My Fingerprints (")

No way in hell I want the US GOV owning that!

Anyways too do that, people require $$$. [/quote]
Ahh... You're right, it'd be an expensive trip. However, you could still stop posting these inane articles.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Feb 26 2005, 08:54 AM'] Are you saying that MSNBC is right-wing? That is funny!!!!!! Sheesh....

:rotfl:

Cam42 [/quote]
Thats got to be one of the funniest things I've ever seen him post... I actually laughed out loud when I read it.

[JP2Iloveyou]

[quote]Only when it was in the US' best interest, lets face it, that is what international politics is all about. Every country does it, doesn't make it right but that's just a fact. I can't stand it when politicians carry on as if they are doing a selfless act when really there are other motives. Please give me some examples of wars the US has won where it didn't benefit the US. I'm not saying you are wrong but I can't think of any at the moment.[/quote]

I'm not sure what this had to do with my post, but I'll respond anyway. I think, in general, you are right. Most wars the U.S. gets into benefit it in some way. Of course, and I'm not saying this to sound arrogant, most world events have some impact on the U.S. As someone pointed out, that comes with the territory of being the only super power in the world.

Regardless of whether or not the U.S. benefits directly from Iraq is irrelevant, I think. The point is that millions of people in Iraq and Afghanistan are free now because we intervened. Both major World Wars were won because the U.S. came to Europe's aid. The U.S. is not perfect in its foreign policy. I think the Bush administration could have handled some things better in Iraq. However, I am still 100% supportive of the fact that we are over there and the troops themselves.

Also, I stand by my opinion that all people who are anti-war are therefore anti-freedom because their freedoms are won by war. You can't reap the benefits if you don't support the cause. Therefore, I think the freedom of speech these people so highly value should be taken away until they realize from whence it came.

[toledo_jesus]

If you are an enemy in a warzone, and you not only engage in guerilla tactics but also in suicide bombing and laying traps, then you can reasonably expect that taking you as a prisoner is not safe, and would not be the first course of action for your enemy. Hence why you are shot.
I wish it hadn't been in a mosque...it might have looked better that way.