Bill Maher Says Christians Have Neurological

[God Conquers]

[quote]We need to get this straight. The 'pilgrims' who originally came to America were puritans. The colonies that they founded were religious. The colonies founded by the various European countries were religious -- protestant for the UK and catholic for Spain, etc. The United States, when it was founded, was not religious in nature. The founders thereof specifically added provisions to prevent it from being so (see 1st Amendment, Bill of Rights, Constitution of the United States). The citizens of the United States were of various religions, mostly christian, as they are today.[/quote]

You need to get this straight.

The Pilgrims, as Puritans and dissenters, left places like England, Holland and Germany to escape religious and political persecution from other Christians. These guys were hardcore though. They instituted the protections when founding the United States not to protect the State from religion, but to protect their RELIGIONS from the State! They wanted a Christian nation, and they did what they thought would protect their various brands of Christianity from State-sponsored tyranny and political restriction.

[crusader1234]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Feb 28 2005, 05:37 PM'] Crusader, pal, you're starting to sound like one of our atheist friends here. Crazies will do crazy things and find ways to justify it, with or without religion.

As I have pointed out numerous times, the Communists managed to commit the greatest number of attrocities of any regime in history while denying the existance of God.

People will do whacked out things in the name of class warfare, revolution, the "good of mankind," scientific progress, the environment, racial superiority, the crazy little voices in thier heads, or in the name of nothing at all!

(and as to your smirky "trickle-down economics" remark, others claim that a socialistic welfare state is the will of God.)

The fact that people sometimes do ungodly things in the name of faith is not an unfortunate aspect of faith (especially of the True Faith found in the Catholic Church), but of human nature. [/quote]
Sorry, you've misintepreted me. Make that you've assumed a great deal. I said that some people do ungodly things and tie them into their faith as justification. That is true. I also never said that religion was the only justification for crazies, which it obviously isn't, but it definately is one of the largest. I also never said that Socialism was God's work. Its always interesting to see the defense mechanisms that pop up in the Debate table regardless of whether or not defense is warranted. Please, in the future, don't call me an atheist. Anybody with half a brain can tell you that crazy people do tend to say 'God' is their justification quite often - regardless of that person with half a brain's faith.

[Socrates]

[quote name='crusader1234' date='Feb 28 2005, 08:18 PM'] Sorry, you've misintepreted me.  Make that you've assumed a great deal.  I said that some people do ungodly things and tie them into their faith as justification.  That is true.  I also never said that religion was the only justification for crazies, which it obviously isn't, but it definately is one of the largest.  I also never said that Socialism was God's work.  Its always interesting to see the defense mechanisms that pop up in the Debate table regardless of whether or not defense is warranted.  Please, in the future, don't call me an atheist.  Anybody with half a brain can tell you that crazy people do tend to say 'God' is their justification quite often - regardless of that person with half a brain's faith. [/quote]
you seem to have misinterpreted me.

1. I never called you an atheist. I was simply pointing out that this post reminded me of the rhetoric of atheists who view religious faith as a negative force in society, responsible for much of the world's violence and evil.
I was pointing out that this view is false.

2. I never claimed you said socialism is God's work. I was commenting on your trickle down economic remark, which I assumed was a commentary on Christian Republicans or something. I personally have never heard anyone say teh idea of "trickle-down economics" came from God. However, I have heard various liberal Christians claim that Christian faith demands us to support various government policies/economic policies.

My main problem with your post is that you seemed to imply "religious faith" as a cause of "craziness." [quote]People do a lot of ungodly things and tie it into their faith which I feel is an unfortunate aspect of faith. [/quote]
Perhaps this was just poorly worded, but my disagreement is that this is an "aspect of faith."

My point is that people will find justifications for crazy or evil actions regardless of religion.

Edited March 1, 2005 by Socrates

[Winchester]

1. Bill Maher is a controversialist. He says things to offend. Getting worked up over it means he wins. He's like a name-calling bully: ignore him or turn your considerable powers of mockery back upon him and he will shrivel as a vampire exposed to the Sun. (hitting bullies are best dealt with by return of violence above and beyond that meted out by said bully. This works unless they kill you, but I always worked on the theory better to die on your feet than your knees.)

2.We do not have complete religious freedom in this country. The first amendment is not perfect. Follow it exactly and it conflicts with the other amendments.

3.This is a democratic republic (approaching a mobocracy). If enough people want there to be a theocracy, it will happen and according to the tenets of democracy, it should happen. If you are really worried about it, then form a military band and stage a coup. I recommend attacking Marines, so you'll be wiped out quickly enough that your stupidity won't interrupt too many of my television shows.

[burnsspivey]

[quote name='God Conquers' date='Feb 28 2005, 06:21 PM']
You need to get this straight.

The Pilgrims, as Puritans and dissenters, left places like England, Holland and Germany to escape religious and political persecution from other Christians. These guys were hardcore though. They instituted the protections when founding the United States not to protect the State from religion, but to protect their RELIGIONS from the State! They wanted a Christian nation, and they did what they thought would protect their various brands of Christianity from State-sponsored tyranny and political restriction. [/quote]
The puritans didn't found the US. There were many of the founders who were deist and not christian. The US was not founded as a christian nation. However, you are correct that part of the First Amendment protects religion from the government. That's why I don't understand how more religious people are against a separation of church and state.

[burnsspivey]

[quote name='Winchester' date='Mar 1 2005, 01:38 AM'] 2.We do not have complete religious freedom in this country. The first amendment is not perfect. Follow it exactly and it conflicts with the other amendments. [/quote]
The Supreme Court has pointed out time and again that the First Amendment isn't absolute. It's important to remember this. Good job.

[quote]3.This is a democratic republic (approaching a mobocracy). If enough people want there to be a theocracy, it will happen and according to the tenets of democracy, it should happen. If you are really worried about it, then form a military band and stage a coup. I recommend attacking Marines, so you'll be wiped out quickly enough that your stupidity won't interrupt too many of my television shows.[/quote]

It's a democratic republic with built in checks and balances. There's a reason we have a Supreme Court and that it functions as it does. What the majority wants is not always right or (more importantly, lawwise) constitutional.