Anna Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Yeah, Benny Hinn is right 'up there' with the Holy Father.... B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.SIGGA Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Yeah, Benny Hinn is right 'up there' with the Holy Father.... 'yeah, you're absolutly right' I have yet to see JPII make someone rip their catheder out and fly across a stage :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 (edited) rotfl.... But seriously, BLAZEr, I'm really glad that an Assemblies of God youth is involved in your Catholic Youth program. If you can find common ground to begin at, that's great. There are a couple (agreeing principles), in a very basic sense. Most, however, definitely cannot be reconciled with Catholic Teaching. I think many AoGs would be amazed to learn of the abortifacient aspects of their contraceptives...But there is another teaching moment! Best of wishes to you on this....This thread kinda makes me lonely for mulls... Pax Christi. <>< Edited October 29, 2003 by Anna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP2Iloveyou Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Uhh.... hate to break it for ya... but I was baptised in the Holy Spirit before I was baptised in water. I donno where you got that 'logic' from? wasn't that exactly what he was saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted October 29, 2003 Author Share Posted October 29, 2003 .... But seriously, BLAZEr, I'm really glad that an Assemblies of God youth is involved in your Catholic Youth program. If you can find common ground to begin at, that's great. There are a couple (agreeing principles), in a very basic sense. Most, however, definitely cannot be reconciled with Catholic Teaching. I think many AoGs would be amazed to learn of the abortifacient aspects of their contraceptives...But there is another teaching moment! Best of wishes to you on this....This thread kinda makes me lonely for mulls... Pax Christi. <>< Thanks. Prayers would be best. He is moving to Azerbijan in January. So it's not like I have a lot of time to "convert" him. But I also want him to know that I don't love him merely becasue he might one day become a Catholic . . . that I love him even if he never becomes one. This point is usually lost in apologetics . . . We will keep up a good relationship hopefully through email, but the other question is just what his parents will think of this relationship. They're letting him come to my Youth Group, but when he starts telling them that he makes the Sign of the Cross when he prays, or that Catholics do praise and worship and that the Eucharist is a fulfillment of the Old Covenent . . . they just might prevent him from coming . . . I gott a pray hard . . . and i ask your prayers too . . . His stepdad is an ex-catholic . . . talk about needing prayers. Please pray for my boy (X), FX2, you know who I'm talking about right? Pray for him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 (edited) Jake and Anna, ... I guess what I really was floored by was how many beliefs we have in common . . . I looked at their 16 Core Beliefs (the ones you have to agree to in order to consder yourself and Assembly of God Church) BLAZEr, on the surface these things look as though they agree with Catholicism, but almost every one has glaring differences: WE BELIEVE...The Scriptures are Inspired by God and declare His design and plan for mankind. Yet we reject some of the Scriptures Christ and the Apostles used, as "apocrypha," (uninspired) and we reject the Church Christ established which canonized, preserved, and interprets the Scriptures... WE BELIEVE...There is only One True God–revealed in three persons...Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (commonly known as the Trinity). WE BELIEVE...In the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. As God's son Jesus was both human and divine. But Mary was not the "Mother of God," even though her Son is a Deity. WE BELIEVE...though originally good, Man Willingly Fell to Sin–ushering evil and death, both physical and spiritual, into the world. Adam's sin brought death into the world, but evil was ushered in at The Fall, when Lucifer denounced God's plan and he and his legion became fallen angels. Hence, spiritual evil existed before Adam's actual sin. (Angels are spiritual beings, so fallen angels would have been evil spirits, or spiritual evil.) WE BELIEVE...Every Person Can Have Restored Fellowship with God Through 'Salvation' (accepting Christ's offer of forgiveness for sin). [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the A/G] This is very vague... How this is done...accepting Jesus as personal Lord and Savior? How frequently does one restore fellowship with God? Does one simply accept Christ's offer, and then he's saved for all time? Definitely not in accord with Catholic Teaching. WE BELIEVE...and practice two ordinances—(1) Water Baptism by Immersion after repenting of one's sins and receiving Christ's gift of salvation, Meaning one must be old enough to repent of sins he has committed before he can be baptized. This baptism is intended for adults to be cleansed of sins of omission and excludes infants who are born with original sin. Infant baptism is unacceptable to AofG. Immersion (or rather, submersion) isn't the only acceptable method of baptizing in the Catholic Church. Pouring and sprinkling are also acceptable. Some of the oldest artistic renditions of Christ's baptism depict St. John the Baptist pouring water over Christ using a seashell.and (2) Holy Communion (the Lord's Supper) as a symbolic remembrance of Christ's suffering and death for our salvation. Note the word, symbolic. Christ wasn't speaking figuratively when He said, "This is My Body," etc. WE BELIEVE...the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is a Special Experience Following Salvation that empowers believers for witnessing and effective service, just as it did in New Testament times. [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the A/G] We would liken this to the Sacrament of Confirmation, but the AofG baptism in the Holy Spirit doesn't resemble Confirmation in the least. WE BELIEVE... The Initial Physical Evidence of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is ‘Speaking in Tongues,’ as experienced on the Day of Pentecost and referenced throughout Acts and the Epistles. One need not speak in tongues as proof of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. WE BELIEVE...Sanctification Initially Occurs at Salvation and is not only a declaration that a believer is holy, but also a progressive lifelong process of separating from evil as believers continually draw closer to God and become more Christlike. Catholic believe this also. But we don't claim to be "saved," as that is really a judgement, and is for God to decide. WE BELIEVE...The Church has a Mission to seek and save all who are lost in sin. We believe 'the Church' is the Body of Christ and consists of the people who, throughout time, have accepted God's offer of redemption (regardless of religious denomination) through the sacrificial death of His son Jesus Christ. A very loose definition of Church, not in keeping with Christ's foundation upon "Rock" (Peter). WE BELIEVE...A Divinely Called and Scripturally Ordained Leadership Ministry Serves the Church. The Bible teaches that each of us under leadership must commit ourselves to reach others for Christ, to worship Him with other believers, and to build up or edify the body of believers–the Church. "Scripturally ordained?" The Bible ordains the Church leaders? How did the early Church ordain leaders for the first 400 years before the Bible was compiled? WE BELIEVE...Divine Healing of the Sick is a Privilege for Christians Today and is provided for in Christ's atonement (His sacrificial death on the cross for our sins). [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the A/G] Catholics believe that miraculous healings take place, but divine healing isn't a privilege or right that we're entitled to, necessarily...Christ's Death on the Cross wasn't to put an end to our sufferings here on earth! inDouche, Christ encourages us, if we love Him, to pick up our crosses every day, and follow Him. WE BELIEVE...in The Blessed Hope—When Jesus Raptures His Church Prior to His Return to Earth (the second coming). At this future moment in time all believers who have died will rise from their graves and will meet the Lord in the air, and Christians who are alive will be caught up with them, to be with the Lord forever. [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the A/G] This definition is not in keeping with the Church's Teachings on the Second Coming of Christ. WE BELIEVE...in The Millennial Reign of Christ when Jesus returns with His saints at His second coming and begins His benevolent rule over earth for 1,000 years. At that time many in the nation of Israel will recognize and accept Him as the Messiah, the Savior who died for them and all mankind. AofG folks seem to be rather fixated upon the Book of Revelation, and seem to interpret it literally. The Catholic Church doesn't. WE BELIEVE...A Final Judgment Will Take Place for those who have rejected Christ. They will be judged for their sin and consigned to eternal punishment in a punishing lake of fire. The Catholic Church teaches that everyone will face a final judgement, not just those who have rejected Christ. We'll be separated like sheep and goats. In the meantime, some of us who've died earlier will have been waiting in Purgatory, a doctrine which AofG would definitely reject. WE BELIEVE...and look forward to the perfect New Heavens and a New Earth that Christ is preparing for all people, of all time, who have accepted Him. We will live and dwell with Him there forever following His millennial reign on Earth. 'And so shall we forever be with the Lord!' More apocolyptic stuff... Certainly there is a lot to disagree on . . . but I'm impressed that we have some place to start off from to start negotiations . . . Well, we love Jesus. That's a start!!!! Pax Christi. <>< Edited October 29, 2003 by Anna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted October 29, 2003 Author Share Posted October 29, 2003 (edited) LOL . . . there is no compromising with you is there Anna? LOL, I love you! You make us fight for every inch! Keep Rocking . . . Now, for my explanation . . . If I start with their 16 Core Doctrines I can do two things: A.) show how their doctrines don't go far enough B.)Show where their doctrines go wrong Let's say we start with the Jesus is the Deity one . . . well, its only a matter of Logic to say then that Mary is the Mother of God. My kid believes what we believe on this now, because we talked about it. However, he erroneously thought that we meant that Mary gave birth to the Trinity and that we thought that Mary somehow pre-existed and gave birth to God before the creation of the World. Any Catholic knows that we don't believe that, but most protestants don't know it. So, he and I talked about it and I explained to him why we honor Mary and under what Conditions and he and I agreed on the following: 1. Mary is the Mother of God because she is the Mother of Jesus who was God. However Mary is not the Mother of the person of the Father nor the Mother of the Person of the Holy Spirit apart from her maternity of Christ. 2. Mary can be called Queen, in as much as she is the Mother of the King and in Jewish custom the Queen was not the wife of the King but the Mother of the King (thank you Scott Hahn). 3. Mary is not just some randomnly lucky woman, but was chosen by God among all women and prepared (like the Ark was prepared) to be a glorious vessel for the New Covenent which is Christ. (This one took a little work, but he understands how God was so picky with the Ark and it just had the Tablets, why wouldn't he be picky with Mary when she would house God himself.) 4. That Mary being given to John as his Mother is not something that is pertinent only/merely to John and that its not like Christ is stating some after thought from the Cross like "Oh by the way, can you watch over my mom." So when Christ says "Behold your Mother" he means a lot more than 'Hey you, John and John only, please look after the old lady for me." It was important for him to understand that Mary is only relevant to Christianity in as much as she has a particular relationship with Christ. That her role in Salvation History is not arbitrary and that when we honor Mary we are really saying something about Christ. All of this came from the common ground that we believe "Jesus is both God and Man." Not too shabby, eh? Before you know it, my boy will be praying the Rosary . . . then watch out! Edited October 29, 2003 by BLAZEr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 LOL . . . there is no compromising with you is there Anna? lol. Compromising with me is possible, but compromising with the Truth, I cannot do. (Just ask my kids!) LOL, I love you!The feeling is mutual. :wub: You make us fight for every inch! Building on rock means never having to lose an inch. I don't base my beliefs on my own interpretations. I have surrendered inches...no, miles...to the Keeper of Truth, the Catholic Church. Keep Rocking . . .Keep on the Rock! Now, for my explanation . . . If I start with their 16 Core Doctrines I can do two things: A.) show how their doctrines don't go far enough B.)Show where their doctrines go wrong I thought that was what I was doing!!! And your explanation to your young'un was superb. Keep on telling It like It Is. The Truth is like a light...no need to hide it under a basket! Keep shining! Pax Christi. <>< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Yeah, Benny Hinn is right 'up there' with the Holy Father.... B) Benny Hinn is a heretic. He believes that because Adam had dominion over all the creatures on Earth, he could fly and breathe underwater, just like birds and fish - because he had dominion over them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Benny Hinn is a heretic. He believes that because Adam had dominion over all the creatures on Earth, he could fly and breathe underwater, just like birds and fish - because he had dominion over them. Oh yeah, heard about that one too. My family watches Benny Hinn and everything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted October 29, 2003 Author Share Posted October 29, 2003 Benny Hinn is a heretic. He believes that because Adam had dominion over all the creatures on Earth, he could fly and breathe underwater, just like birds and fish - because he had dominion over them. Anna was joking . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Benny Hinn is a heretic. He believes that because Adam had dominion over all the creatures on Earth, he could fly and breathe underwater, just like birds and fish - because he had dominion over them. wow i didn't know he believed that just another example of what private interpretation can do i'm sure he thinks the Holy Spirit told him that. <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unshackled Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 BLAZEr, The Assemblies of God is a very anti-Catholic, sola-scriptura religion, with a history of only about 100 years. They reject the necessity of works, and consider Catholic Sacraments "works." Therefore, they very vocally reject the need for the Sacraments instituted by Christ. They also forbid drinking of alcoholic beverages, including wine, even though Christ Himself drank wine and instructed us to use it in our mass. They deny that Jesus established a visible Church, they deny the papacy and priesthood. They believe that Catholics honoring Mary and the saints is idolatry. I believe they await "the rapture." They consider artificial birth control and sterilization as good stewardship.... The only thing that we seem to have in common is a belief in the Trinity. I have read a number of posts on this site stating that Protestants have no understanding of Catholic doctrine and then I read this load of absolute rubbish. If you are to accuse anyone of having specific beliefs, then please have the decency to do your research properly and not just make vague, unjustifiable claims and expect others to accept them as facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Then enlighten us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 I have read a number of posts on this site stating that Protestants have no understanding of Catholic doctrine and then I read this load of absolute rubbish. If you are to accuse anyone of having specific beliefs, then please have the decency to do your research properly and not just make vague, unjustifiable claims and expect others to accept them as facts. Actually my neighbor is an AOG peson and that is exactly what she believes. Considering how many differnet versions there are, this is to be expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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