BLAZEr Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Ok, one of the kids who comes to my Catholic Youth Group is in an Assembly of God church. He and I talk about the Church's teachings all the time, but one thing he mentioned to me on a plane ride this last weekend was that he knew a lot of what Catholic's believed and why and not enough of what his Church believed and why. So . . . I went to the Assemblies of God webpage and WHOAH!! These guys are pretty close to us in a lot of ways . . . I do see major docrtinal distinctions and therein lies my question. What are the major distinctions between Catholics and Asemblies of God? Are there any famous or active Catholic Apologists who were former Assemblies of God pastors or members? How can I help my kid both learn about his Church and at the same time help him to see the (Catholic) Church's teachings in their completeness? In other words, what books might I be able to suggest to him that would deal with his Church's teachings seriously and charitably? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Are there any famous or active Catholic Apologists who were former Assemblies of God pastors or members? Tim Staples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 BLAZEr, The Assemblies of God is a very anti-Catholic, sola-scriptura religion, with a history of only about 100 years. They reject the necessity of works, and consider Catholic Sacraments "works." Therefore, they very vocally reject the need for the Sacraments instituted by Christ. They also forbid drinking of alcoholic beverages, including wine, even though Christ Himself drank wine and instructed us to use it in our mass. They deny that Jesus established a visible Church, they deny the papacy and priesthood. They believe that Catholics honoring Mary and the saints is idolatry. I believe they await "the rapture." They consider artificial birth control and sterilization as good stewardship.... The only thing that we seem to have in common is a belief in the Trinity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foundsheep Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Tim Staples I love his nuts and bolts book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 BLAZEr, The Assemblies of God is a very anti-Catholic, sola-scriptura religion, with a history of only about 100 years. They reject the necessity of works, and consider Catholic Sacraments "works." Therefore, they very vocally reject the need for the Sacraments instituted by Christ. They also forbid drinking of alcoholic beverages, including wine, even though Christ Himself drank wine and instructed us to use it in our mass. They deny that Jesus established a visible Church, they deny the papacy and priesthood. They believe that Catholics honoring Mary and the saints is idolatry. I believe they await "the rapture." They consider artificial birth control and sterilization as good stewardship.... The only thing that we seem to have in common is a belief in the Trinity. True Anna, but I wouldn't be surprised if Blazer's friend is "close to Catholicism". That's how it is with Protestantism... Although the sects have their collective "beliefs", each individual also has his or her "own" beliefs. Which is what makes it so prone to multiplication and division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted October 28, 2003 Author Share Posted October 28, 2003 Jake and Anna, I meant it in the way that both of you describe. But I guess what I really was floored by was how many beliefs we have in common . . . It's not like dealing with a mormon or Jehovah's witness or even a Southern Baptist . . . The Trinity was big, but also I was impressed in the WAY that they articulated their pro-life stance (even how they oppose the use of birth control that is abortifacient). And I guess I didn't see their big Sola Scriptura push . . . I looked at their 16 Core Beliefs (the ones you have to agree to in order to consder yourself and Assembly of God Church) WE BELIEVE...The Scriptures are Inspired by God and declare His design and plan for mankind. WE BELIEVE...There is only One True God–revealed in three persons...Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (commonly known as the Trinity). WE BELIEVE...In the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. As God's son Jesus was both human and divine. WE BELIEVE...though originally good, Man Willingly Fell to Sin–ushering evil and death, both physical and spiritual, into the world. WE BELIEVE...Every Person Can Have Restored Fellowship with God Through 'Salvation' (accepting Christ's offer of forgiveness for sin). [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the A/G]WE BELIEVE...and practice two ordinances—(1) Water Baptism by Immersion after repenting of one's sins and receiving Christ's gift of salvation, and (2) Holy Communion (the Lord's Supper) as a symbolic remembrance of Christ's suffering and death for our salvation. WE BELIEVE...the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is a Special Experience Following Salvation that empowers believers for witnessing and effective service, just as it did in New Testament times. [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the A/G] WE BELIEVE... The Initial Physical Evidence of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is ‘Speaking in Tongues,’ as experienced on the Day of Pentecost and referenced throughout Acts and the Epistles. WE BELIEVE...Sanctification Initially Occurs at Salvation and is not only a declaration that a believer is holy, but also a progressive lifelong process of separating from evil as believers continually draw closer to God and become more Christlike. WE BELIEVE...The Church has a Mission to seek and save all who are lost in sin. We believe 'the Church' is the Body of Christ and consists of the people who, throughout time, have accepted God's offer of redemption (regardless of religious denomination) through the sacrificial death of His son Jesus Christ. WE BELIEVE...A Divinely Called and Scripturally Ordained Leadership Ministry Serves the Church. The Bible teaches that each of us under leadership must commit ourselves to reach others for Christ, to worship Him with other believers, and to build up or edify the body of believers–the Church. WE BELIEVE...Divine Healing of the Sick is a Privilege for Christians Today and is provided for in Christ's atonement (His sacrificial death on the cross for our sins). [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the A/G] WE BELIEVE...in The Blessed Hope—When Jesus Raptures His Church Prior to His Return to Earth (the second coming). At this future moment in time all believers who have died will rise from their graves and will meet the Lord in the air, and Christians who are alive will be caught up with them, to be with the Lord forever. [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the A/G] WE BELIEVE...in The Millennial Reign of Christ when Jesus returns with His saints at His second coming and begins His benevolent rule over earth for 1,000 years. At that time many in the nation of Israel will recognize and accept Him as the Messiah, the Savior who died for them and all mankind. WE BELIEVE...A Final Judgment Will Take Place for those who have rejected Christ. They will be judged for their sin and consigned to eternal punishment in a punishing lake of fire. WE BELIEVE...and look forward to the perfect New Heavens and a New Earth that Christ is preparing for all people, of all time, who have accepted Him. We will live and dwell with Him there forever following His millennial reign on Earth. 'And so shall we forever be with the Lord!' Certainly there is a lot to disagree on . . . but I'm impressed that we have some place to start off from to start negotiations . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP2Iloveyou Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Tim Staples is incredible. I love listening to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 WE BELIEVE...the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is a Special Experience Following Salvation that empowers believers for witnessing and effective service, just as it did in New Testament times. [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the A/G] They believe that this follows "Salvation". And they have requisit to "Salvation", water baptism. So in other words, on must have been baptised in water before they can be baptized in the Holy Spirit. But this falls apart Biblically: Acts 10: 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, 47 Can anyone keep these people from being baptised with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have. Many had recieved the "baptism in the Spirit", but had yet to be baptised in water. So, therefore, we can say, one can recieve the Holy Spirit without being "saved". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 The Pentecostals sprang from the Holiness movement, fathered by a Methodist minister in the Holiness tradition named Charles Parham, in Topeka, Kansas. Parham started a school there, and one of his students, Miss Agnes Ozman, "spoke in tongues" at a school prayer meeting in January, 1901, after praying ardently for the "baptism of the Holy Spirit," and Pentecostalism was born. Many churches fit into the Pentecostal category, the second largest of which is the Assemblies of God. The AOG was organized in 1914 by a group of ministers who joined their Pentecostal churches and assemblies together at a meeting in Hot Springs, Arkansas. I also don't agree that they are similar in teaching to Catholicism. They are ardent Fundamentalists and consider that a sure sign that one is "saved" is if one "speaks in tongues." No "tongues" = no Holy Spirit = no salvation. They are strictly sola scriptura, based upon their own unique interpretation of the Bible. (This is true of all Protestants.) The historic, teaching Church with its Sacred Tradition is an abomination to them. Very anti-Catholic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freaky Chik Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 They believe that this follows "Salvation". And they have requisit to "Salvation", water baptism. So in other words, on must have been baptised in water before they can be baptized in the Holy Spirit. But this falls apart Biblically: Many had recieved the "baptism in the Spirit", but had yet to be baptised in water. So, therefore, we can say, one can recieve the Holy Spirit without being "saved". Uhh.... hate to break it for ya... but I was baptised in the Holy Spirit before I was baptised in water. I donno where you got that 'logic' from? :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freaky Chik Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 No "tongues" = no Holy Spirit = no salvation. That's wrong too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted October 29, 2003 Author Share Posted October 29, 2003 I didn't mean to imply that Catholics and AOG's are similar in doctrine or teachings, just that we have some things in common and some places to meet individual AOG's at . . . when I evangelize I like to start with what they believe and then help them to build on it either way, keep the info coming, this is helpful, Especially that book by Tim Staples, I'm ordering it tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Available from the chnetwork.org, click "CHResources," then "video," Anthony Ricciardi, Returning Home, Former AOG/Revert This is a VHS video of a "Journeys Home" presentation on EWTN -- an interview with a former Catholic who joined the AOG, then returned home to Rome. $15 You would do well to try Staples' book first. He's excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.SIGGA Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 The TBN (Trinity Broadcasting Network) is run by the Assemblies of God Chruches, otherwise Pentecostals - that probably includes Benny Hinn and all the other preachers who are on that network. I know some from school and they are really good people who are open to Catholicism and even defended the Church when other students were dissing it after the sex scandals. A fundamental belief of theirs is to do away with denominationalism and organized Christianity as a means so reach salvation, Catholics included. Benny Hinn speaks very dearly of the Catholic Church and the Pope as an evangelist like himself, but nothing more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 That's wrong too... Freaky, one of the problems with Protestantism is that each church pastor and each individual is his own authority, and no two people are required to agree. You read the Bible one way, and your neighbor reads it another, and the pastor has yet another interpretation. And you're all equally "right." There is no centralized teaching authority as there is for Catholics, no ultimate authority whose answer is final and infallible. It's strictly do-it-yourself religion. So it doesn't surprise me that my experience with AOG is different from yours. Oremus pro invicem (Let us pray for one another.) Katholikos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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