Cam42 Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 El Hime-a-rino!!!! [quote]Excuse me Camster, but where does it say that?[/quote] Jorge Cardinal Medina Estevez states: [quote]In accord with the above cited instructions of the Holy See such an authorization may not, in any way, exclude men or, in particular, boys from service at the altar, nor require that priests of the diocese would make use of female altar servers, since "it will always be very appropriate to follow the noble tradition of having boys serve at the altar" (Circular Letter to the Presidents of the Episcopal Conferences, March 15, 1994, no. 2).....[b]With respect to whether the practice of women serving at the altar would truly be of pastoral advantage in the local pastoral situation[/b], it is perhaps helpful to recall that the non-ordained faithful do not have a right to service at the altar, rather they are capable of being admitted to such service by the Sacred Pastors (cf. Circular Letter to the Presidents of the Episcopal Conferences, March 15, 1994, no. 4, cf. also can. 228, s.1, Interdicasterial Instruction Ecclesiae de mysterio, August 15, 1997, no. 4, see Notitiae 34 [1998] 9-42).[/quote] [quote]Rather, after having heard the opinion of the Episcopal Conference, [b]he is to base his prudential judgment upon what he considers to accord more closely with the local pastoral need for an ordered development of the liturgical life[/b] in the diocese entrusted to his care, bearing in mind, among other things, the sensibilities of the faithful, the reasons which would motivate such a permission, and the different liturgical settings and congregations which gather for the Holy Mass (cf. Circular Letter to the Presidents of the Episcopal Conferences, March 15, 1994, no. 1).[/quote] Notice the bold, with respect to where it would be of pastoral advantage and of pastoral need. Cardinal Estevez says in this letter: [quote]...this Dicastry wishes to assure you of its gratitude for the opportunity to elaborate further upon this question and that it considers the present letter to be normative.[/quote] [url="http://www.catholicliturgy.com/index.cfm/FuseAction/DocumentContents/DocumentIndex/556"]Concerning the Use of Female Altar Servers [/url] I have never said that it wasn't allowable, actually, I have supported the traditional use of females in certain situations. I am supporting the position of Cardinal Medina Estevez. Camster P.S. This document speaks directly to the idea of serving at the altar as being linked with vocations. For those who are interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 [quote]It's more of the state of mind that I am in when I serve mass and the grace that is received.[/quote] And that is what I was speaking about. It isn't about serving Mass, it is about turning your mind, body, heart and soul to God. It is not about the fact that one does or does not serve Mass. Participatio actuosa v. participatio activa is the point of the response, not whether or not you are sitting closer to the altar. Perhaps this article will help you to understand better what I am getting at. [url="http://www.catholicliturgy.com/index.cfm/FuseAction/ArticleText/Index/100/SubIndex/103/ArticleIndex/35"]Participation: Msgr. Richard Schuler[/url] In it he states: [quote]The difference between participation in the liturgy that can be called activa and participation that can be lablled actuosa rests in the presence in the soul of the baptismal character, the seal that grants one the right to participate. Without the baptismal mark, all the actions of singing, walking, kneeling or anything else can be termed "active," but they do not constitute participatio actuosa. Only the baptismal character can make any actions truly participatory. (Msgr. Richard Schuler)[/quote] [quote]The means to achieve such elevation of the spirit in prayer onvolve all the activities of the human person, both spirit and body. Such means produce true actuosa participatio. (Msgr. Richard Schuler)[/quote] Cam42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 [quote]P.S. This document speaks directly to the idea of serving at the altar as being linked with vocations. For those who are interested[/quote] If the focus needs to be on creating greater interest in vocations (and I'm not saying that's not a good focus), why deal with the question of boy vs girl altar servers? Why not focus on the lack of acolytes? People are stating that many priests started their journey as altar servers. I don't deny that. However, I would be willing to bet my bacon that those same priests also served as acolytes and that was an even more integral step in their journey. How many diocese have actively promoted an acolyte ministry? If we were to change the focus from "I don't like girl altar servers" to "why not promote the ministry of acolytes" then the possibility of it being a mysogenistic conversation is over. We've had quite a few folks say "hey I was an altar server" . There's only one who's participating on this thread that I know has been an acolyte. Any others> For the record, I have no problem with girls as altar servers. I do have a problem with the lack of acolytes in the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 [quote]Why not focus on the lack of acolytes?[/quote] It has been elluded to, but I have avoided that conversation based upon the idea of the thread. However, what are your thoughts on the need for installed acolytes. Cam42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 I think the promotion of an acolyte ministry is integral to creating more interest in vocations. That's what I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Its also of great benefit that acolytes have a third less calories than the "ministry of Aco" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 [quote]I think the promotion of an acolyte ministry is integral to creating more interest in vocations.[/quote] How so....? Camma-lamma-ding-dong P.S. "ministry of Acolyte" tastes great and is less filling..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 hot stuff, Bishop Vasa, of Baker, OR has instituted a role that is more formalized for the laity. Here it is: [url="http://www.dioceseofbaker.org/giving_testimon_to_the_truth.htm"]Giving Testimony to the Truth[/url] Here is my take on Bishop Vasa, Nos. 2, 3, and 4 are liturgically linked to the priesthood. I think that it is a good idea if he is seeking to follow the documents Ecclesia de Eucharista and Redemptionis Sacramentum. Personally, I think that it is a great idea, for a number of reasons that will make the NOW (National Orginization of Women) VERY angry. (Although I would not call it “Ministry of Reader,” but rather what it is, Office of Lector.) It shows and teaches a fuller idea of priesthood, both ordained (ministerial) and universal. Nos. 5-8 seem to be right in line. Nos. 9 and 11 are the strongest language that I have seen yet on the issue of Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion. “The degree to which this perception is justified varies from one Bishop and from one Diocese to another. God must ultimately be the judge. The truth seems to be that there was an excess of compassion for erroneous priests, a defect of concern for the children who were repeatedly put at risk and a lack of resolve to deal with manifest sinfulness.” We need to foster this type of compassion and understanding toward all persons No. 18 is also a great summation of the Nicene Creed. Nos. 21, 22, and 23 are very discriminatory, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. His logic is sound and I think that the Truth behind the matter is clear. Morality from a Catholic scope. As far as No. 27 is concerned; “Furthermore, it is one thing to claim a right to follow one’s conscience, even if it is erroneously formed, it is quite another to insist that one be afforded certain privileges, to which one has no right, while following that manifestly ill-formed conscience.” I find this fascinating. It is quite true. While one has the right, because of free will to either accept or deny Catholic teaching and the Church, if one claims the Church he does not have the right to to dissent, claiming free will. For to do that, from a Catholic perspective is sinful and contrary to free will. It actually binds one to the “slavery of sin.” And that is where Catechesis comes in. I would also say this. It is directed toward the laity, but can be applied to those who are ordained or religious, just as easily. I think that No. 34 is a bit misleading for an ordinary minster is not temporarily entrusted, but permanently entrusted. It would seem that he is also expanding the scope of the Extra-ordinary minister of Holy Communion. I find that a bit disturbing, but acceptable; as long as the compitent Ordinary minister allows for the action to take place. I find the idea of instiuting installed Acolytes and Lectors is a good one; although, there will be some women who will disagree with me. For, if those are extensions (or Offices) of the ministerial priesthood, then they are rightly prescribed for males only. His role of Extra-Ordinary minister of Holy Communion is expanded and there are certain concerns for me, I would accept them. Cam42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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