Girl Altar Servers?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Feb 20 2005, 12:14 PM']
Why? You must have a thought on this. [/quote]
Yes I have, but in this thread I am stating church rules, not my own opinion, since sometimes people can get confused.
I can see both sides of the argument. My personal opinoin would be for boys, but I can live with both.

[Cam42]

[quote]My personal opinoin would be for boys, but I can live with both.[/quote]

We agree.

Cam42

[Mary's Knight, La]

As a former altar server, I prefer all boys.
1. it helped me discern that i wasn't called to the priesthood
2. i have to slightly agree with not seeming to encourage the impossible (female priests) my sister was also an altar server and for a long time (five years give or take) was convinced women should be allowed ordination, I believe it's related.
3. Altar serving is an extension of the priestly ministry and as such I think it properly but not necessarily is intended for men

however, I also am of the opinion all youth say from 8 - 12 should be altar servers. It helps one appreciate the mass so much more because of the different perspective on the parts of the mass ( at least it did with the altar server training I went through)

so i'll compromise and say all boys from 8 - 12 should be an altar server at some point.

[Tink]

Well, I certainly see the overwhleming and unanimous opinion that females are not intended to serve on the altar. And while I understand the delivered reasoning behind such opinions, I don't necessarily agree.

I am aware of the many complications that arise with allowing females to serve, but I also know that the opportunity to serve as the priest (read:MALE PRIEST) comemmorates Christ's death in the Eucharist. As was mentioned before, being present on the altar or in close proximity to it does not increase one's ability to derive abundant graces from the Mass. In this respect, any male discerning religious life can be lead just as easily to such a point through attending Mass with the congregation. The opportunity to serve is always a gift, on the altar and off, and shouldn't be denied to any child looking to take part.

[Myles Domini]

Boys are most proper undoubtedly, but it doesnt mean that women shouldnt serve (after all the Vatican has given that permission over to the local Bishop so let him decide). What I find distasteful is altar girls wearing the same clothes as altar boys. This is wrong and indeeds appear to blur distinctions since the altar boys' outfit is modelled on that of the priest (a role the woman cant have). I would suggest that someone redesign the girls' outfits to look more closely resemble the attire of religious sisters.

[Apotheoun]

The Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments after consultation with the Pontifical Council for the Interpretation of Legislative Texts has given an authoritative clarification on the nature of the indult granted by the Holy See allowing bishops of the Roman Rite to permit women to serve at the altar. The clarification emphasizes that no priest is required to use female altar servers, even if the Local Ordinary has permitted there use in his diocese.

Here is the letter of the Congregation:

[quote]Letter of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments

on possible admission of girls, adult women and women religious to serve alongside boys as servers in the Liturgy

Notitiae - 421-422 Vol 37 (2001) Num/ 8-9 - pp 397-399


A Bishop recently asked the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments whether a Diocesan Bishop would be able to oblige his priests to admit women and girls to service at the altar. This Dicastery has considered it opportune to send this letter to the Bishop in question, and given its particular importance, to publish it here.

_______________

Prot. N.2451/00/L

July 27, 2001


Your Excellency,

Further to recent correspondence, this Congregation resolved to undertake a renewed study of the questions concerning the possible admission of girls, adult women and women religious to serve alongside boys as servers in the Liturgy.

As part of this examination, the Dicastery consulted the Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts which replied with a letter of July 23, 2001. The reply of the Pontifical Council was helpful in reaffirming that the questions raised by this Congregation, including [i]the question of whether particular legislation could oblige individual priests in their celebration of the Holy Mass to make use of women to serve at the altar, do not concern the interpretation of the law, but rather are questions of the correct application of the law[/i]. The reply of the aforementioned Pontifical Council, therefore, confirms the understanding of this Dicastery that the matter falls within the competence of this Congregation as delineated by the Apostolic Constitution Pastor Bonus, § 62. Bearing in mind this authoritative response, this Dicastery, having resolved outstanding questions, was able to conclude its own study. At the present time, therefore, the Congregation would wish to make the following observations.

As is clear from the [i]Responsio ad propositum dubium[/i] concerning can. 230, § 2, and its authentic interpretation (cf. Circular Letter to the Presidents of Episcopal Conferences, Prot. n. 2482/93 March 15, 1994, see Notitiae 30 [1994] 333-335), the Diocesan Bishop, in his role as moderator of the liturgical life in the diocese entrusted to his care, has the authority to permit service at the altar by women within the boundaries of the territory entrusted to his care. Moreover his liberty in this question cannot be conditioned by claims in favor of a uniformity between his diocese and other dioceses which would logically lead to the removal of the necessary freedom of action from the individual Diocesan Bishop. Rather, after having heard the opinion of the Episcopal Conference, he is to base his prudential judgment upon what he considers to accord more closely with the local pastoral need for an ordered development of the liturgical life in the diocese entrusted to his care, [i]bearing in mind, among other things, the sensibilities of the faithful, the reasons which would motivate such a permission, and the different liturgical settings and congregations which gather for the Holy Mass[/i] (cf. Circular Letter to the Presidents of Episcopal Conferences, March 15, 1994, no. 1).

In accord with the above cited instructions of the Holy See such an authorization may not, in any way, exclude men or, in particular, boys from service at the altar, [b][i]nor require that priests of the diocese would make use of female altar servers, since "it will always be very appropriate to follow the noble tradition of having boys serve at the altar"[/i][/b] (Circular Letter to the Presidents of Episcopal Conference, March 15, 1994, no. 2). Indeed, the obligation to support groups of altar boys will always remain, not least of all due to the well known assistance that such programs have provided since time immemorial in encouraging future priestly vocations (cf. ibid.),

[i]With respect to whether the practice of women serving at the altar would truly be of pastoral advantage in the local pastoral situation, it is perhaps helpful to recall that the non-ordained faithful do not have a right to service at the altar, rather they are capable of being admitted to such service by the Sacred Pastors[/i] (cf. Circular Letter to the Presidents of Episcopal Conferences, March 15, 1994, no. 4, cf. also can 228, §1, Interdicasterial Instruction [u]Esslesiae de mysterio[/u], August 15, 1997, no. 4, see Notitiae 34 [1998] 9-42). Therefore, in the event that Your Excellency found it opportune to authorize service of women at the altar, [i]it would remain important to explain clearly to the faithful the nature of this innovation, lest confusion might be introduced, thereby hampering the development of priestly vocations[/i].

Having thus confirmed and further clarified the contents of its previous response to Your Excellency, this Dicastery wishes to assure you of its gratitude for the opportunity to elaborate further upon this question and that it considers this present letter to be normative.

With every good wish and kind regard, I am, Sincerely yours in Christ,

Jorge A. Card. Medina Estévez
Prefect

Mons. Mario Marini
Under Secretary[/quote]

It should be noted that in the Eastern Catholic Churches women are prohibited from serving at the altar, and so any Eastern Churches that have admitted women to this liturgical role should desist immediately from the practice, because it is a liturgical abuse.

God bless,
Todd

[Pieta]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Feb 19 2005, 11:14 PM']The Church has said it was fine, so it is.[/quote]
My daughter serves with pride. Our mass is mostly Latin, our responses and chanting Latin as well. Our priest is beyond conservative, moving slowly toward an entirely Latin mass. Father states that girls on the altar is in keeping with the Church teaching and if my daughter feels called to serve, she should serve. She has been highly trained and knows that the altar was once the training ground for priests. When the time comes, she will step down. In the meantime, she adores our Lord, feels blessed to be on the altar during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and would never harm her Church to satisfy a whim. Women cannot serve in a priestly capacity, let us serve where we can. Our Mass Leaders all agree, my daughter is the most reverent of all servers. If she didn't attend daily mass, Father would have no help at all. The day that women become priests is the day that I leave the Church. Girls serving on the altar are not a threat, nor are they distracting, they are serving and the peace of our Lord be with them.

[Apotheoun]

As a Byzantine Catholic I am happy that the Eastern Catholic Churches continue to uphold the 2,000 year tradition of not allowing women to serve at the altar.

[stargirl3:16]

I have been an altar server. My brother and my sister have also been altar servers. I think that there is nothing wrong with it, though I find it interesting that after each of us stopped being altar servers we started serving in another way(i.e. lector, EM, etc.)

[JP2Iloveyou]

[quote]Girls serving the altar is evil, a scandal, and should be stopped. It's a complete fabrication legalized from a liturgic abuse and only more makes the liturgy more socially acceptable to Lutherans, not God.[/quote]

Hold on there man! I prefer all male altar servers as much as the next guy, but the Church has said that in cases where there is a pastoral need, it is acceptable. I don't know who you are, but in a debate between you and the Church, I'll take the side of the Church. There are a lot of things that are evil. A discipline that has the approval of the Church is certainly not one of them.

You cannot be more Catholic than the pope. I don't want to pretend to speak for St. Pius V, but he was a faithful son of the Church and I suspect that he would not like someone using his name and invoking his intercession AGAINST something the Church has instituted.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='JP2Iloveyou' date='Feb 24 2005, 08:48 PM'] Hold on there man!  I prefer all male altar servers as much as the next guy, but the Church has said that in cases where there is a pastoral need, it is acceptable.  I don't know who you are, but in a debate between you and the Church, I'll take the side of the Church.  There are a lot of things that are evil.  A discipline that has the approval of the Church is certainly not one of them.

You cannot be more Catholic than the pope.  I don't want to pretend to speak for St. Pius V, but he was a faithful son of the Church and I suspect that he would not like someone using his name and invoking his intercession AGAINST something the Church has instituted. [/quote]
The indult permitting altar girls in the Roman Rite does not apply to the Eastern Catholic Churches. Thus, the use of female altar servers in the various Byzantine Catholic Churches is a liturgical abuse.

[JP2Iloveyou]

Apoth, I know. My last post was directed to St. PiusVPrayforUs. Sorry if there was confusion.

[Cam42]

Ya know....

Where there is pastoral need. The allowing of female altar servers is allowed by necessity, not apathy. (Redemptionis Sacramentum no. 47)

The Church allows for it if there is a need, not a want. Simply because a girls wants to serve, doesn't automatically make it so. I think that in some places using girls to serve is an abuse, even in the Latin Rite. Why? Because unless an entire Catholic community has no male children, boys should be vigorously encouraged to serve Mass. Only then, after this vigorous call, if no boys will come forth, then girls should be allowed.

[quote]With respect to whether the practice of women serving at the altar would truly be of pastoral advantage in the local pastoral situation, it is perhaps helpful to recall that the non-ordained faithful do not have a right to service at the altar, rather they are capable of being admitted to such service by the Sacred Pastors (cf. Circular Letter to the Presidents of the Episcopal Conferences, March 15, 1994, no. 4, cf. also can. 228, s.1, Interdicasterial Instruction Ecclesiae de mysterio, August 15, 1997, no. 4, see Notitiae 34 [1998] 9-42). (Jorge Cardinal Medina Estevez, Prefect of CDW)[/quote]

[quote]Therefore, in the event that Your Excellency found it opportune to authorize service of women at the altar, it would remain important to explain clearly to the faithful the nature of this innovation, lest confusion might be introduced, thereby hampering the development of priestly vocations. (Jorge Cardinal Medina Estevez, Prefect CDW)[/quote]

These quotes were taken from a letter to a bishop from the Congregation of Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments.

[url="http://www.liturgy.org/index.cfm/FuseAction/DocumentContents/DocumentIndex/556"]Letter from CDW[/url]

Notice that this letter uses the same documentation as Redemptionis Sacramentum. This would assume that the teachings though 3 years apart are harmonious.

Cam42

[DojoGrant]

Lay altar servers are really an extension of the minor order of acolyte, still one of the minor orders that one will obtain on the road to Holy Orders.

I think, just like the EMHCs, it was allowed when absolutely needed, when there are no boys or not enough boys who can do it.

Instead, it has become the rule, not the exception. Just another misconstruance in the name of Vatican II.

[Cam42]

[quote]Lay altar servers are really an extension of the minor order of acolyte, still one of the minor orders that one will obtain on the road to Holy Orders.[/quote]

Agreed.

Cam42