Cam42 Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 [quote]I didn't receive any information of why an alter-server does what he does, and it's meaning in the Mass. I asssume this is an issue that if explained, may find more boys willing to serve.[/quote] I think that this is key, Mikey. There used to be extensive training that went along with being a server. Learning the Latin responses....knowing the motions, understanding the various roles....and ascension through the ranks.....starting as a torchbearer, moving to a crucifer, then to an acolyte and finally to the thurifer. Once that was accomplished, then the honor of becoming an emcee could be conferred. None of that happens any more, let alone learning the different roles, which would be catechetical in nature. However, none of that precludes female servers, as they could comprehend the theology easily. But the content is notwithstanding.....the problem lies in vocations. Is it a real suprise that the number of priestly vocations are down and the number of female altar servers are up? I think therein lies the conversation. [quote] having girls serve, that takes away from the total amount of males that could be affected by this. Females gain or lose nothing (that they could not gain or lose from being in the pews) from alter serving, but in light of this information, they do take away from the total amount of males exposed to alter-serving, who obviously gain something from it.[/quote] I think that this is what needs to be explored more deeply.....great thought Mikey. Cam42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 80% of priests were once altar boys. Young guys are less likely to want to serve with a bunch of girls. It's also not good to encouragevocational training for women who can not enter into the priesthood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 [quote]*Edit* Cam's post is really interesting to read and seems to be very informative. And No, I'm not saying it because he's a friend of mine. It really sheds some light on the subject.[/quote] Mikey Likes Me!!!!!!! I feel like a box of Life!!!!! YAY!!!!!!! Seriously, thanks Mikey, I like you too :wavey: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Well Cam before we totally hijack this topic. Of course I do. That fateful 8 o'clockish (Eastern Time) night we me ton Paltalk. Yes, I knew I loved you. Your understanding of heresy put me in awe. Besides, your an outsanding guy. You have a taste for Pavarotti, and you helpe dme find the Sunscreen song. oh wow. /hijack. God bless, Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I think allowing altar girls is wrong, for the reasons stated by others above, particularly that this has always been a male role related to the priesthood (similar to deacons). Traditionaly, no women were allowed in the sanctuary. Thankfully, I belong to one of the few dioceses in the country (Arlington) which does not allow altar girls. I am even more opposed to the practice of having female EMs. Women have always had important roles in the Church which did not involve serving at the altar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 [quote]I am even more opposed to the practice of having female EMs. [/quote] Actually, unless there are thousands of people at Mass, [b]I am opposed to having any[/b] Extra-ordianary ministers of Holy Communion (herefore known as EMHC). The EMHC is for dire situations only, not merely convience. There needs to be a true and complete need for them. 99% of parish churches do not need them. If you can prove that a parish of 500 families or a college chapel of 250-300 attendees needs EMHC, give it a shot, but I don't think that it can work.... I agree with Socrates on this one....see how non-sexist I am.....and it isn't a total rail on women. Cam42 P.S. Mikey gotta hit up trainorsr's room on Paltalk one of these days....It usually is up by 9:30p ET. Later Cam42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missionarybelle Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Personally, I'm a girl altar server but I only became one because my brother was to scared to do it by himself and also I liked the chance to ba able to participate in what was going on. I don't really still care to altar serve anymore but I havn't gotten around to taking my name off the scedule (I'm just Lazy) I have learned ALOT from being an altar server about the parts of the Mass, the vestments and other curchly items. whenever I altar serve I never where makeup or jewelry so as not to be a disstraction. I do however think it's beautiful when there are all guys up there but also we don't have enough altar servers in our parish. at one of the Masses only 2 families serve and they just switch out every other week. I do like it better when its all boys though. Angelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I'd assume your a younger person then... on the debate table. Excellent. Yes, my days for being an alter server ended 2 years ago... darn... Cases like yours seem acceptable. Sadly it's much worse in big parishes where there are boys and plenty of them to fill the positions.. God bless, Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 As far as things go in the Church, there have been things that have been rescinded by the Church in regard to the Liturgy.....like the prohibition on Gregorian Chant. There have also been ideals of theology that have been re-accepted, like the idea of Thomism. I would say that a prohibition on female altar servers would be a good thing.....there are many other things that women can do in the Church. Heck, my mommy is a trustee of the parish I grew up in. But she doesn't serve Mass.... BTW, nowhere does it say that altar servers have to be children. So all you men out there who would like to serve, unite.....we can be examples too. Cam42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bookwyrm Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 [quote name='Cam42' date='Feb 20 2005, 11:14 AM'] Mixing of the sexes is distracting for both. What if Johnny is scheduled to serve with Jane and Johnny has a crush on Jane? Or vice versa? Where is the focus. Even if this were not the case, young people are developing sexually and emotionally at this time in their lives and many don't yet understand or control the thoughts in their minds. When one serves at the altar, there should be a focus on the celebration of the Mass, not on whether or not Jane will say yes for pizza after Mass. [/quote] And what if Johnny and Jane just happen to go to mass at the same time? Should we segregrate all masses for teenagers? It's up to the individual to control himself or herself. I'm not saying yea or nay, just wanted to point out that particular reason as being slightly absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewmeister2 Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I personally disagree with the idea of female altar servers, because originally, the position was used for men, so that they could better discern priesthood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picchick Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 [quote]The face of the Church is being feminized, because girls are quick to volunteer for everything and slowly guys are disappearing from roles of importance. Just count the number of altar girls there are and contrast it to the number of altar boys in any given parish that allows boys and girls. I suspect you'll find there are many more altar girls.[/quote] -Aluigi In my church trying to get ANY girls/boys to volunteer for ANYTHING is like pulling teeth. We either have an equal amount of girl/boy servers or there are like one or two more of either. [quote]Mixing of the sexes is distracting for both.[/quote]-Cam42 [quote]Young guys are less likely to want to serve with a bunch of girls.[/quote]-God Conquers Then don't have them serve together. My diocese does not allow girls to serve with boys. Please don't get me wrong. I am not trying to feminize the Church or fight like a feminist to keep girl servers but do you really think that the pope would allow girl servers if he saw that it would lead to women priesthood? Although I think it is wonderfull to see men and boys at the altar rather than girls, I see nothing wrong in allowing girls so serve Mass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 It takes the position of guys that could possibly end up in the priesthood is the only objection to it. In your case, I don't imagine it's a problem since there just arne't enough kids to do it. Althoug Cam had a point, not only kids have to do it. God bless, Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 [quote]And what if Johnny and Jane just happen to go to mass at the same time?[/quote] Unless they are sitting right next to each other, as they would be in the sanctuary, it is a relevant argument. [quote]Should we segregrate all masses for teenagers? It's up to the individual to control himself or herself.[/quote] Of course not, but we should practice prudence.....putting teens together in a confined space when one may or may not be attracted to the other may or may not be a distraction. It should be avoided..... [quote]...do you really think that the pope would allow girl servers if he saw that it would lead to women priesthood?[/quote] I don't think that he has really thought about it that much. I think that he has left it to the bishops....and the bishops have made a mistake. While I am obedient to the bishops and tolerate the action, I will speak against it...it is simply inappropriate. My statements and proofs have born that out. I have known many girls and young women whom I have had this conversation with say, "Why can't I be a priest? I can serve." Most of that conversation came from girls I went to undergrad with, but I recently had this conversation with a girl who was remiss because she couldn't serve....she honestly felt that if she were able to serve, she could help affect a change in the policy....gotta love Detroit. Having to re-catechize the faithful is a hard thing to do. Especially, when the prevailing thought among the vocal minority of female theologians of our day is "Why can't women be allowed to the priesthood?" But since it is allowed, I tolerate it.....I just don't like it, I think that it is disingenious to both males and females. It does give a false sense of hope. Cam42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StPiusVPrayForUs Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 "Pope Gelasius in his ninth letter (chap. 26) to the bishops of Lucania condemned the evil practice which had been introduced of women serving the priest at the celebration of Mass. Since this abuse had spread to the Greeks, Innocent IV strictly forbade it in his letter to the bishop of Tusculum: 'Women should not dare to serve at the altar; they should be altogether refused this ministry.' We too have forbidden this practice in the same words...." --Pope Benedict XIV, Encyclical Allatae Sunt, July 26, 1755 Girls serving the altar is evil, a scandal, and should be stopped. It's a complete fabrication legalized from a liturgic abuse and only more makes the liturgy more socially acceptable to Lutherans, not God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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