Guest Johnny Reb Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Should there be girl altar servers??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 While it is allowed....I will sound a resounding and total NO!!!!!!!!! It is inappropriate. Cam42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Johnny Reb Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Cam42 said: [quote]While it is allowed....I will sound a resounding and total NO!!!!!!!!! It is inappropriate.[/quote] I second that. anyone have a different opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 it's just pandering...totally annoying that it occurs. This may not be PC, but it's a man's profession. Girls should not be altar boys. It feeds a false hope that maybe, one day, the Church will come to Her senses and just ordain women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I think it is unnecessary. While it is allowed, I personally don't like it. [quote][47.] It is altogether laudable to maintain the noble custom by which [b]boys[/b] or youths, customarily termed servers, provide service of the altar after the manner of acolytes, and receive catechesis regarding their function in accordance with their power of comprehension.[119] Nor should it be forgotten that a great number of sacred ministers over the course of the centuries have come from among boys such as these.[120] Associations for them, including also the participation and assistance of their parents, should be established or promoted, and in such a way greater pastoral care will be provided for the ministers. Whenever such associations are international in nature, it pertains to the competence of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments to establish them or to approve and revise their statutes.[121] Girls or women [b]may[/b] also be admitted to this service of the altar, at the discretion of the diocesan Bishop and in observance of the established norms.[122][/quote] [url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html"]Redemptionis Sacramentum[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corban711 Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I also think it is unnecessary. I was very happy when our pastor said we wouldn't have them anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picchick Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I do not see any reason as to why it is in itself wrong. I would rather have boy altar servers because I think that it may help increase vocations. However, I was an altar girl and I have no desire or thought of becoming a priest. I do think that there should be some limitations. Girl servers should not serve with boy servers. They need to dress modestly. They should not wear cassock serving outfits. They have to have their hair pulled back and they should not wear make up or nail polish. Everything should look as simple as possible so as not to distract the congregation. It is unnessary but I don't think that there is anything wrong with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 The Church has said it was fine, so it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 (edited) Altar boys are good for the Church. Altar girls are not necessarily. The face of the Church is being feminized, because girls are quick to volunteer for everything and slowly guys are disappearing from roles of importance. Just count the number of altar girls there are and contrast it to the number of altar boys in any given parish that allows boys and girls. I suspect you'll find there are many more altar girls. Anyway, I'm sure someone will come in and say that we should let boys and girls do it to show equality or something. I don't buy that at all. The Church allows it (well, allows the bishops to decide). She can reverse that decision anytime she wants, and I think it would be very beneficial for the Church to reverse it. Edited February 20, 2005 by Aluigi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 i disagree with most of you. I think it is wonderful that women are willing to serve. WHy should you discriminate against them? It is not a "man's" profession. It is the profession of a servant. Women can be servants as well. Think of the lives that it changes. It does not have a power just for men. Because women do it doesn't prevent men from doing it. I have yet to see a priest say there are to many altar servers. Your argument about it helping vocations is true but the sword cuts both ways. it influences women as well. personally i would rather have enough priests and deacons that we don't need altar servers at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 [quote]The Church has said it was fine, so it is.[/quote] Why? You must have a thought on this. The reasoning behind me disagreeing is several-fold, these are in no particular order. 1. Serving at the altar is a vocational tool. If you ask many priests, they will credit part of their vocation as being able to serve at the altar. 2. Mixing of the sexes is distracting for both. What if Johnny is scheduled to serve with Jane and Johnny has a crush on Jane? Or vice versa? Where is the focus. Even if this were not the case, young people are developing sexually and emotionally at this time in their lives and many don't yet understand or control the thoughts in their minds. When one serves at the altar, there should be a focus on the celebration of the Mass, not on whether or not Jane will say yes for pizza after Mass. 3. Serving at the altar is an extension of the priesthood. If one looks at who the proper ministers of the Mass are, one will see that serving at the altar is a direct extension of the priesthood itself. In monestaries, priests who celebrate their own Masses will serve Mass for one another, since at least one person must be present. Also, the break down of ministers of the Eucharist are simple. The priest is the Priniciple minister, the deacon serves the priest. The installed acolyte is one who serves the Mass. The installed lector reads the scripture. When one or more of these installed orders of the priesthood are not available, then an extraordinary minister is needed. Mass can and is celebrated without deacons. Installed acolytes are few and far between (although there is a bit of a renaissance). So, the proper extension of this would be an altar boy. Girls cannot be installed acolytes, so it would follow that one who can become an acolyte would substitute. (on another note, I think that the same holds true for all ministers at the altar). I am not sexist, I think that the Church has a plethora of roles for women and girls. I just think that serving and assisting at the altar is not one of them. It is not unreasonable to think this, but rather it is simply a matter of catechesis. While there have always been exceptions, such as a nun serving at the altar in a monestary or priory, this is an extreme situation and one that under the most severe of circumstances can and should be allowed. Just my thoughts, but it is a mindset that is growing....and can be supported. As Colleen posted, there is a difference between [i]can[/i] and [i]may[/i]. Cam42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranciscanRocker25 Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I agree with Jezic. When I altar served the reason was because I wanted to serve Christ (I thought the closest way was to be right there on the altar with him). When I see altar servers, I'm thinking about all the graces they are receiving and probably don't know it. Although altar serving is closely linked with the priesthood, it can do very much good in girls too. People probably think nuns aren't as important as priests are because priests celebrate mass and what not, but think about Bl. Mother Teresa. Everyone in the entire world knows Bl. Mother Teresa, honestly, is there a priest that everyone knows in the entire world? I'm not degrading priests and lifting up women or anything like that, I'm just trying to make a point that women should be allowed to altar serve. It's more about the graces they are receiving and being so close to Christ, than whether or not it's a man or woman. Peace, Caroline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I am not completely against female altar servers, but I am disappointed that there are more girls serving than guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 There is a theological misconception about serving at the altar that is prevelant in this argument as a whole, not necessarily here. It is that proximity to the Blessed Sacrament means "more" active pariticipation. This is the argument that first allowed for the laity in the Sanctuary. It is a lack of understanding the Latin difference of participatio activa and pariticipatio actuosa. Both translate into the English as active participation. But the meanings are very different. The Mass of its nature requires that all those present participate in it, in the fashion proper to each. The participation of those present becomes fuller (plenior) if to internal attention (actuosa) is joined external participation (activa), expressed, that is to say, by external actions such as the position of the body (genuflecting, standing, sitting), ceremonial gestures, or, in particular, the responses, prayers and singing . . . It is this harmonious form of participation that is referred to in pontifical documents when they speak of active participation (participatio actuosa), the principal example of which is found in the celebrating priest and his ministers who, with due interior devotion and exact observance of the rubrics and ceremonies, minister at the altar. Those documents are, Tra le sollecitudini (1910; Pope St. Pius X), Divini cultus (1928; Pope Pius XI), Mystici corporus (1943; Pope Pius XII), Mediator Dei (1947; Pope Pius XIII), De musica sacra (1958; Congregation of Rites), and Sacrosanctum Concilium (1965; Pope Paul VI). Perfect participatio actuosa of the faithful, finally, is obtained when there is added sacramental participation (by communion). Deliberate participatio actuosa of the faithful is not possible without their adequate instruction. What are those actions that make for true active participation in the liturgy? These must be both internal and external in quality, since man is a rational creature with body and soul. The external actions must be intelligent and understood, sincere and pious internally. The Church proposes many bodily positions: kneeling, standing, walking, sitting, etc. It likewise proposes many human actions: singing, speaking, listening and above all else, the reception of the Holy Eucharist. They demand internal attention as well as external execution. One of the most active and demanding of human actions is that of listening. It requires strict attention and summons up in a person his total concentrative effort. It is possible, for example, to walk without really knowing that one is walking or advert to where one is going. The Church does not have the entire congregation proclaim the gospel text, but rather the deacon or the priest does it. It is the duty of all to listen. The cannon of the Mass is not to be recited by everyone but all are to hear it. Listening is a most important form of active participation. Important too for any participation in the liturgy is the elevation of the spirit of the worshipper. Ultimately, liturgy is prayer, the supreme prayer of adoration, thanksgiving, petition and reparation. Prayer is the raising of the heart and the mind to God as Creator, Redeemer and Sanctifier. The means to achieve such elevation of the spirit in prayer onvolve all the activities of the human person, both spirit and body. Such means produce true actuosa participatio. What does all this rhetoric mean? That the misconception that actually being in the Sanctuary somehow creates a closer sense of being with God. This simply is not the case. The most important thing is to attend Mass and to listen. Again, there are those things that are proper to the priest, the deacon, etc....but the most important thing is to listen and participate actively (interior, actuosa) in the Mass. So, the role of the ministers of the altar is not a right or a priviledge, it is not even the most desirable place to be. The most desirable place to be is to be in a position to listen. Acting as a minister does not necessarily do this. Cam42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 (edited) Speaking on totally unbiased terms here, it's a practice that I had no real trouble with until I saw this thread. My sister and I both were alter servers (albeit she got to sit with the priest and helped him with the books while I carried the cross and prepared the alter). I didn't really see a problem with it. Far from it, I don't think I really understand the problem now. However there are some very true facts that, hopefully with more prayer and reflection on the subject I may come to a better understanding of the situation. 1) There are more female than male servers. 2)Many priests will credit alter-serving as part of their realization of their vocation (hopefully if I become a priest, I don't think I'll be able to give any credit to it, but then again I don't know really what caused a change in me). By having girls serve, that takes away from the total amount of males that could be affected by this. Females gain or lose nothing (that they could not gain or lose from being in the pews) from alter serving, but in light of this information, they do take away from the total amount of males exposed to alter-serving, who obviously gain something from it. 3) I didn't receive any information of why an alter-server does what he does, and it's meaning in the Mass. I asssume this is an issue that if explained, may find more boys willing to serve. 4) No one is more faithful from being closer to the alter. 5) Women have been allowed in the past to carry out this position, but as CAm said, they were nuns who knew what was going on. 6) This new deviation from the norm in such a massive way has never been practiced before, and I think there maybe some unknown wisdom behind it (to me at least). 7) Girls want to be active in the Church as much as boys do. This is one of the few ways either sex is allowed to do so in modern times. *Edit* Cam's post is really interesting to read and seems to be very informative. And No, I'm not saying it because he's a friend of mine. It really sheds some light on the subject. God bless, Mikey Edited February 20, 2005 by MichaelFilo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts