Apparitions

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='CatholicAndFanatical' date='Oct 29 2003, 04:48 PM']I went and checked it out thats pretty cool. didnt see the dancing sun though, and couldnt tell if those images of Our Lady were real or just examples of what was seen.

also, who is Pope St. Kyrillos and why is he pope? obviously not in union with Rome right? or no?
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The title Pope doesn't mean the same thing in this context so the Patriarch is not an anti-pope. It doesn't imply that he has primacy or anything like that. B16 is the Pope of Rome and the Ecumenical Patriarch, but there are other popes, who have this title within their Church without any connotations of primacy.

[Selah]

I believe in the Fatima apparition. The Garabandal one has always interested me. As for Medjugorje, I don't really know

Edit: what is the sun dance, exactly?

Edited January 24, 2010 by Selah

[AccountDeleted]

St John of the Cross was once asked if he wanted to go see a nun who apparently had the stigmata. He told his friends that he would be very disappointed if his faith was increased to the smallest degree by such a thing.

God is most pleased when we believe, not having seen.

Yes, He can do anything, and does, but seeking out appartitions and miracles can lead to chasing spiritual consolations and not to union with God. I believe what the Church tells me to believe, but I prefer to live in faith alone because it alone is most pleasing to God

Edited January 24, 2010 by nunsense

[mortify]

The biggest problem I have with Fatima and the predictions of the 20th century, is that those predictions were recorded after the fact... i.e. after World War 2, etc.

[Ed Normile]

I believe that some apparitions although not approved by the church can still have supernatural occurrences, even miracles associated with them. I posted about an experience my family had at an unapproved "appearance" of an image of the Virgin of Guadalupe on a bank window in Clearwater Fl. This was in open mic here at phatmass in a thread about a miracle [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=102241"]My link[/url] attributed to Pope Pius XII if you are interested.

I feel that as Jesus promised us that whenever two or more are gathered in his name he would be there, that these apparitions when attended by the faithful enmass can indeed bring about some miraculous occurrences through prayer and belief, the same way we can through praying together.

ed

[JimR-OCDS]

[color="#000000"]I've always had a problem with Garabandal. The events there border demonic.

Here's a website with important information concerning Garabandal.


[/color][url="http://romancatholicblog.typepad.com/roman_catholic_blog/2007/08/the-alleged-app.html"][color="#000000"]Roman Catholic Blog: The Alleged Apparitions at Garabandal, Spain[/color][/url]


[color="#000000"]Take note of these parts;


A succession of bishops of Santander, the diocese in which Garabandal is located, have condemned the apparition, as can be seen here: [/color][url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/BISHOPS/GARABAND.HTM"][color="#000000"]The Alleged Apparitions at Garabandal, Spain[/color][/url]
[color="#000000"]Conchita and the rest of the children signed a document with the bishop agreeing with the findings of the Church and promising never to promote the apparitions again. Does that sound like the Church is open to the possibility that these visions are from heaven? The original visionaries have reportedly lived up to this signed document, but the Garabandal promoters have not.
All of the children have reportedly retracted all belief in the miracles.


Arguments Against The Heavenly Character Of The Visions At Garabandal:
All eight bishops of Santander have, from 1961 up to now, supported by the Holy See in Rome, publicly declared that there is no evidence that supernatural apparitions have taken place in Garabandal. This does not mean the Church is saying that nothing out of the ordinary, beyond the natural, or preternatural happened at Garabandal. It only means that the Church, through a succession of bishops and with the affirmation of the Holy See, has repeatedly insisted that there is no evidence that what happened at Garabandal was of a heavenly origin. What does that imply?


Jim

[/color]

Edited January 25, 2010 by JimR-OCDS

[zunshynn]

[quote]well, i believe Fatima, the Church tells me it is worthy of belief. i don't believe the other two because by the Church's silence, she has implied that they are not really worthy of belief, it just isn't WRONG to believe in them. am i right here? yeah, let's talk.[/quote]

This is incorrect. The Church is silent because the supposed apparitions have not stopped. She will not rule one way or the other until they stop.

I don't know much about Garabandal, but I have some reservations about it. The seers, from what I understand, did admit to lying about at least one apparition.

I do believe in Fatima, Lourdes, and Guadalupe. And I'm inclined to believe in Medjugorje, because the fruits of it that I've seen seem to be good. But I reserve judgment of course... I really don't have much of an interest in apparitions whether approved or not, though. I think it's wonderful if they help people, but my spirituality doesn't really gravitate to them.

And from what I understand from people who do really follow Medjugorje, the statement that Our Lady's apparitions there are the last ones does not imply that there will be no other apparitions concurrently with Medjugorje, but that there will be no new ones after Medjugorje stops.

I know people who believe in both Medjugorje and Garabandal, while of course waiting to see what the Church determines.

[Nihil Obstat]

Some private theologians have expressed opinions that Garabandal is authentic. Obviously they don't advocate devotion to it, etc., because of the ruling of the local ordinary, but as we know, the local ordinary did not condemn the alleged apparitions.

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='25 January 2010 - 03:04 PM' timestamp='1264446256' post='2044274']
Some private theologians have expressed opinions that Garabandal is authentic. Obviously they don't advocate devotion to it, etc., because of the ruling of the local ordinary, but as we know, the local ordinary did not condemn the alleged apparitions.
[/quote]

Read for yourself


[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/BISHOPS/GARABAND.HTM"]http://www.ewtn.com/library/BISHOPS/GARABAND.HTM[/url]


Jim

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='25 January 2010 - 01:50 PM' timestamp='1264449046' post='2044292']
Read for yourself


[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/BISHOPS/GARABAND.HTM"]http://www.ewtn.com/library/BISHOPS/GARABAND.HTM[/url]


Jim
[/quote]
I read that. I also read the opinions of the private theologians I was mentioning.
The local ordinary said there is no evidence of supernatural occurrences. Not that there is evidence against it. He strongly recommended against devotion.
No constaba.

[Selah]

Why would Garabondal be demonic?

[Resurrexi]

I think that that the apparitions at Guadeloupe, Lourdes, and Fatima are authentic.

[Veridicus]

I think its silly for me to pretend to have an opinion outside of what the Church has authenticated. I've never been to these other places so anything I know about them would be hearsay.

[KeenanParkerII]

[quote]When and if the Church says they are "worthy of belief," I will become an instant believer.

Those apparitions that the Church has said are "worthy of belief" -- like Lourdes and Fatima -- I wholeheartedly believe.
[/quote]

This. I'm a natural skeptic, but if it is acceptable to the Church then it is so.