Diabolical Heretic Martin Luther & Bible

[dUSt]

yeah, but it doesn't say your going to hell.

Why can't Catholics see that the Bible says what John 3:16 says! so

So you can be saved if you have dead faith?

[cmotherofpirl]

I asked a priest why the 7 books of the Old Testament were taken out, he replied with something like "They were not found in Hebrew.".

First Luther didn't want them. They did not agree with his heresies.

Second there were two different groups of jews in OT-NT times. The ones outside of Isreal did not speak the same languages anymore as the ones in Jersusalem. So two separate canons developed. The Catholic Church has used the OT list it always has. The protestants chose the other because it excluded the ones they didn't approve of. Luther also

The ultimate authority for the Bible is the Catholic Church.

[IcePrincessKRS]

ok so you can be saved by dead faith?

what has john 3:16 to do with this conversation?

Why don't Protestants get John 6:51-56?

***Wonders if dUSt will suspend her for encouraging Hyper.... ***

[hyperdulia again]

haha

[ironmonk]

The Jews of 90 AD took out books of the OT. They did not like the fact that the Christians and the Jews used the same Canon.

"The Massorah" - Is the book luther used for the kjv because it was from the Jews, and it was something the Church didn't use... He built a lie saying that the Church added the books, when it was the other way around, it was the Jews that took the books out in 90 AD.

I think that is what the Priest meant without going into great detail.

Anytime a anti-Catholic wants to argue the books of the Bible... this quote always shuts them up...

"We are compelled to concede to the Papists that they have the Word of God, that we received it from them, and that without them we should have no knowledge of it at all."

~ Martin Luther, Commentary on St. John

It's a fact that the man said it, we even give the exact writing it can be found in. Unlike the anti-Catholics with their fruitcake.

Every time I have defended against the anti-Catholic onslaught, and this topic came up, after posting that quote, one of two things happened...

1.) I never heard another word from them.

2.) The subject was immediatly changed.

It boggles my mind how clueless anti-Catholics are. If they don't find an answer or they see the Church is right, then they move right on to the next topic. I do not understand how anyone can claim to love Christ and have such overwhelming pride. They try everything they can to say the Church is wrong, then when they see they are wrong, they ignore it. You would think a light bulb would go off in their head... "hello McFly?!"

When someone attacks the Church, and I don't know an answer, I keep digging until I find one... I'm tenacious. I think the longest time I've ever had to hunt for one was maybe an hour or two. This is how I learned so much on the Church the past 3 years. I already knew the bible so I had a good foundation. Everything the Catholic Church teaches is justified by the Bible, but that's besides the point because it was the Catholic Church that justified the Canon of the New Testament.

This is a fact of history... If people really loved Christ, they would be in His Church(of course they need to know what it is). Some say "yes, the Catholic Church gave us the New Testament, but 'I don't believe it's the Church built by Christ'"... and I say "Then why do you even believe the bible is the inspired Word of God?! For if it truly is the inspired Word of God, then the Catholic Church IS the Church built by Christ. For if one knows that the Catholic Church gave us the New Testament as Canon, and is not Catholic, I not only call them fool, but stupid as well. For by no authority on earth other than that given by God can declare what is Scripture. How do you think so many books made it into the Old Testament?! By the authority of the Jewish high priests. Jesus took their authority away and gave that authority to Peter and the Apostles, authority to carry on the Holy Priesthood of God... The Church of the Living God. The Pillar and Foundation of Truth. 1 Tim 3:15. The Holy Catholic Church, lead by the successor of Peter in Rome. His Holiness Pope John Paul II."

Of course those that have no way to get to a Catholic Church but desire to be Catholic are a different story... things such as parents can get in the way of physically joining the Truth.

Every dialog that I have ever been in with a protestant on Christianity, they have lost... but the reason they loose is not because of me... It's because they are going up against the Catholic Church, not little max brackett. Friends of ian paisley, preachers from baptist churches in NJ, people from chick publications, etc... none of them have prevailed in an argument against the Church.

The Church is never wrong.

The Catholic Church has 2000 years of wisdom, and God on it's side.

All attacks fail against the Church.

CMTA - Catholic Minds Think Alike... that is why when we defend her, we all say the same thing... there is only one truth, not 34,000 and growing.

God, It's GREAT to be Catholic!!!! Amen! B)

*If you're not Catholic, you can be.

If a non-Catholic would like a one to one dialog about anything Catholic, I have a section on my message board just for that. I don't want anyone to think I'm blowing smoke about my history of dialog... I would gladly prove it with any doubting Thomas. - Brotherly Dialog. http://www.MoralTruth.com/MTBBS/

God Bless, Love in Christ & Mary

ironmonk

Edited July 19, 2003 by ironmonk

[nippy316]

Whoa...that was definitely a mouthful.

I'm still waiting for a protestant to explain their interpretation of John 20:23. If Jesus was not speaking of confessing sins aloud, what was he speaking of?? Bro Adam?? Mulls?? Anybody?

Edited July 19, 2003 by nippy316

[ironmonk]

Whoa...that was definitely a mouthful.

I'm still waiting for a protestant to explain their interpretation of John 20:23. If Jesus was not speaking of confessing sins aloud, what was he speaking of?? Bro Adam?? Mulls?? Anybody?

Got another to add to your list....

St James 5:14

Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the presbyters of the church, and they should pray over him and anoint (him) with oil in the name of the Lord,

15 and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven.

16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful.

GBLCM,

ironmonk

[nippy316]

Got another to add to your list....

St James 5:14

Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the presbyters of the church, and they should pray over him and anoint (him) with oil in the name of the Lord,

15 and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven.

16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful.

GBLCM,

ironmonk

Thanks Ironmonk!! The list of misunderstood verses growing quickly...

Here it is so far:

- John 20:23

- John 6:51-56

- Matthew 16:18-19

- James 5:14

If ANY protestant out there would like to take a stab at explaining your interpretation of ANY of these verses to me, shoot away.

We should make a thread about this...maybe.

[Katholikos]

The Jews of 90 AD took out books of the OT. They did not like the fact that the Christians and the Jews used the same Canon.

"The Massorah" - Is the book luther used for the kjv because it was from the Jews, and it was something the Church didn't use... He built a lie saying that the Church added the books, when it was the other way around, it was the Jews that took the books out in 90 AD.

I think that is what the Priest meant without going into great detail.

Anytime a anti-Catholic wants to argue the books of the Bible... this quote always shuts them up...

"We are compelled to concede to the Papists that they have the Word of God, that we received it from them, and that without them we should have no knowledge of it at all."

~ Martin Luther, Commentary on St. John

At the time Jesus was born, there were two collections of Sacred Scriptures used in Jewish synagogues. One, in Hebrew, was in use in Palestine. The other, a Greek translation from the Hebrew, was in use in the lands of the Diaspora.

Many of the brightest and most successful Jews were deported from their homeland by the Babylonians during the Captivity c. 587 - 538 B.C. This was called the Diaspora, or scattering. These Jews were exiled to Greek speaking lands and, over time, learned Greek and forgot their native language. By the 2nd century B.C., it was necessary for their Sacred Scriptures to be translated into Greek, since they could no longer understand Hebrew. This translation was called the Septuagint.

The Palestinian Rabbis who met at Jamnia c. 100 A.D. set the canon of Scripture for Jews for the first time. There was never a canon of approved Scripture for Jews until then. One of the criteria the rabbis established for their canon was the requirement that the writings had to be in Hebrew. The motivation for this was that (1) Jesus and the Apostles used the Greek Septuagint, and the Catholic Church had inherited it, (2) the Church was using the Septuagint with its messianic prophecies to evangelize both pagans and Jews, (3) many Jews had become Christians (Catholics), and the rabbis were attempting to cut their losses. So -- the Greek Scriptures had to go.

Originally, the two collections were the same, but five of the Hebrew scrolls were eventually lost and survived only in Greek translation: Judith, Tobit, 1 Maccabees, Baruch, and Ecclesiasticus (aka Sirach). And two works used in the Diaspora were originally written in Greek -- Wisdom and 2 Maccabees. So at the time the Palestinian canon was set, there were fewer writings in Hebrew than in Greek.

So, seven books and parts of Esther and Daniel in the Alexandrian (Greek) Canon were excluded from the Palestinian (Hebrew) Canon.

Martin Luther lived from 1483 to 1546. The King James Version of the Bible was published in 1611. Luther had nothing to do with it.

But in 1534 when Luther translated his German Bible, he hit upon the idea of rejecting the same 7 books and parts of Esther and Daniel that the rabbis had rejected centuries before. His real target was 2 Maccabees because it supported the doctrine of Purgatory, which he hated. So he just declared that if an OT writing wasn't in Hebrew, it wasn't Scripture -- and he put those 7 books, with the pages unnumbered to show his disdain for them, at the back of his Bible separated from the writings he regarded as Scripture.

To tell the rest of the story, Luther also rejected Hebrews, James, Jude and Revelation from the New Testament and put them, pages unnumbered, at the back of his Bible also, so all of his rejected writings were together. His followers were willing to tolerate Luther's desecration of the OT but drew the line at the NT, and later restored them to their rightful place in the Scriptures.

The original KJV included the 7 books and parts of Esther and Daniel, but put them at the back, separate from the rest of the books Luther (and all Protestants)regarded as Scripture, just as Luther did in his German Bible.

The KJV was "authorized" by the Church of England under King James, a notorious and scandalous public sinner.

JMJ Jay (Likos)

Edited July 20, 2003 by Katholikos

[hyperdulia again]

king james was a queen.

[Anna]

St. John, Chapter 3:

11 Amen, amen, I say to you, we speak of what we know and we testify to what we have seen, but you people do not accept our testimony.

12

If I tell you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things?

13

No one has gone up to heaven except the one who has come down from heaven, the Son of Man.

14

And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,

15

so that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life."

16

For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life.

17

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.

18

Whoever believes in him will not be condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

19

And this is the verdict, that the light came into the world, but people preferred darkness to light, because their works were evil.

20

For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come toward the light, so that his works might not be exposed.

21

But whoever lives the truth comes to the light, so that his works may be clearly seen as done in God.

22

After this, Jesus and his disciples went into the region of Judea, where he spent some time with them baptizing.

In Scripture, the Catholic Church is likened to a city on a hill; the Catholic faith to a light or lamp, not to placed under a bushel basket, but set high to give light in darkness.

Can it be that some think they are serving Christ, but are truly following the doctrines of men?

Saint Matthew 7,21.24-27.

Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Everyone who listens to these words of mine and acts on them will be like a wise man who built his house on rock. The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. But it did not collapse; it had been set solidly on rock. And everyone who listens to these words of mine but does not act on them will be like a fool who built his house on sand. The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. And it collapsed and was completely ruined."

Jesus seems pretty clear here that we can't just say that we believe; we must listen to his teachings, understand what they mean, and live by them.

His teachings are found most clearly, are defined, and with His authority imparted to the faithful, in the Catholic Church.

I take John 3:16 very seriously, but not superficially.

[Anna]

John 3:16: ...everyone who believes in Him....

John 6:56:...He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him

So, who is "everyone who believes in Him?"

My Faith and reasoning tells me that it is everyone who believes in Him, in His name, in His True Presence in the Blessed Sacrament, and in His Church, to which He promised, "I am with you always..." Everyone who believes in Him and believes in what He taught the Apostles:

Matthew 28:20...teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.

[Katholikos]

king james was a queen.

Rex fuit Elizabeth: nunc est regina Jacobus—"Elizabeth was King: now James is Queen."