Cam42 Posted February 14, 2005 Author Share Posted February 14, 2005 James, My problem with your statement is that you say that responsibility lies with the Jews. That is contrary to Church teaching. I have posted it. Everyone has posted it. You even say it. [quote]However, all mankind does not share the same responsibility for the crucifixion. The Sanhedrin delivered Christ to the Roman authorities and demanded His execution.[/quote] This implies something that is contrary to Catholic teaching. While we do not know how God will judge, the Church teaches that it is not our place to impart blame or responsibility, which by that statement you have done. While what you have said may appear to be valid, it is most certainly not sound. Therefore an unacceptable premise, that the Jews are somehow responsible moreso than any other group of humans invalidates your argument. I refer you to the earlier quotes by Tink, cmom, and myself. This should sufficiently enlighten you as to where you are making your error. (Nostra Aetate no.4 and CCC 597) So, cmom is not wrong by wording her statement the way that she does, because she imputes no guilt on the Jews, specifically. You, on the other hand, do. That is where the error lies. Cam42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted February 14, 2005 Author Share Posted February 14, 2005 [quote]Of course you do, because it's historical evidence that contradicts your agenda.[/quote] No, because the point of this thread has nothing to do with the Talmud. Notice you are the only one talking about it. So, again, I respectfully request that you stop talking about it. Thanks. Cam42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 "And so all who cried out with impious voices for the crucifixion of Christ slew Him, not, indeed, directly with their own hands, but personally through him who was compelled to such a crime by their clamour .... They were implicated in the crime from which they tried to hold themselves aloof; for Pilate would have done no such thing, save to implement what he perceived to be their fixed desire." [St Augustine: On the Gospel of Saint John 114, 115] "Let not the Jews say, 'We have not crucified Christ.' For to this end they gave Him to Pilate the judge, in order that they themselves might seem as if they were guiltless of His death .... But if he is guilty because he did it against his will, are they innocent who compelled him to do it? By no means. But he gave sentence against him, and commanded him to be crucified: and in a manner himself killed him; you also, O you Jews, killed him. Whence did you kill Him? With the sword of the tongue: for ye did whet your tongues. And when did ye smite, except when ye cried out, 'Crucify, crucify'? .... This is the whole of the Jews sagacity, this is that which they sought as some great matter. Let us kill and let us not kill: so let us kill, as that we may not ourselves be judged to have killed." [St Augustine: On the Psalms 63:4,5; Roman Breviary, Matins of Good Friday] "For as though they were afraid lest they should seem to fall short at all in the crime, having killed the prophets with their own hands, but this man with the sentence of a judge, so they do in every deed; and make it the work of their own hands, and condemn and sentence both among themselves and before Pilate, saying: 'His blood be on us and on our children,' and insult Him, and do despite unto Him themselves, binding Him, leading Him away, and render themselves authors of the spiteful acts done by the soldiers, and nail Him to the cross, and revile Him, and spit at Him, and deride Him. For Pilate contributed nothing in this matter, but they themselves did everything, becoming accusers, and judges, and executioners, and all." [St John Chrysostom: On the Gospel of Saint Matthew] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 So the answer to the question who killed Jesus is all of us. Case closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 "Pilate took water in accordance with that, 'I will wash my hands in innocency', in a manner testifying and saying, I indeed have sought to deliver this innocent man, but since a tumult is rising, and the charge of treason to Caesar is urged against me, I am innocent of the blood of this just man .... Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us and on our children. This imprecation rests at the present day upon the Jews: the Lord's blood is not removed from them." --St. Thomas Aquinas, Catena Aurea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 The jews standing there did not have the authority to speak for every jew for all time, nor is St Thomas infallible or constitutes the Magisterium of the Church. Chuerch teaching has been posted. More than once. Case closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts