Christians persecuted? In America?

[argent_paladin]

Ah, but not only are they "liberal" schools, they are the "elite" schools. So, if you want to go to the best schools for graduate study (and you need to if you want to be a professor at a good school) you have to hide your Catholicism. Even a good school in a borderline state like University of Michigan, or University of Wisconsin or even University of Texas in a red state are notoriously liberal, and thus very anti-Christian. It has nothing to do with location, but rather that the cultural elites are anti-Christian bigots. The only elites where this is not true is business (because money trumps bigotry) and politics (where they need the votes of the unwashed Christian masses).
The newspapers, too, are simply the newspapers with the highest reputations, where the best journalists go. I wasn't trying to chose liberal institutions, but the most elite. That they all are liberal is simply more proof of the liberal anti-Christian bias that the elites have. Schools like Notre Dame or papers like the Washington Times are exceptions that prove the rule.
The higher you get, the harder it is to be openly Christian.

[jezic]

stop already ........

Don't turn this into a fight.

The truth is Christians are persecuted everywhere. Yes, the laws and courts and media working against us is persecution.

Actually now more people are killed for their faith than ever before.

A better course of action would be what are you doing to stop this?

Do you pray for those people daily? Do you spread word about the persecuted church? Do you consider joining their cause for the good of mankind?

[argent_paladin]

jezic brings up an interesting point. I am very hesitant to use the term "persecution" because I think what American Christians go through pales in comparison to Christians in China or North Korea or Africa and most who are persecuting them are not "liberals". Denying a Christian professor tenure is surely discrimination, but not persecution.
Christians are not getting martyred in America. Most especially not by liberals. So I think that David Limbaugh's thesis is a bit exaggerated. Persecution to me means like the early Roman martyrs, or under Nazi Germany, not in Bush's America, when the majority of Congress and the Supreme court are Christians.
And what did you mean by "Do you consider joining their cause for the good of mankind?"
If their "cause" is Christianity (and I can't imagine it is anything else", then I joined that "cause" decades ago. And I appreciate your concern for my prayer life, but I do pray for those who are persecuted for their faith.

And what am I doing? I am studying philosophy and theology full time so that I can eventually teach future priests and religious about the Church, about Sacred Scripture and about the faith. That's what I'm doing. I also go to Africa in the summers on missionary work and studied for the priesthood for four years before leaving last fall. Both sides of my family Polish and Korean, have undergone tremendous religious persecution. I certainly do spread the word and I am a bit offended that you thought that I am all talk and no action. What do you think I was just doing? Exposing discrimination among American elites is necessary for "spreading the word".

[jezic]

Well i didn't mean you specifically, but that is good to hear.

Christians are not being killed in America. That is true to an extent, however they are being silenced and denied rights. The right of the minority is ruining the majority.

persecution is found in many forms all over the world. Some of them involve martyrdom some involve the culture and society. it is still all persecution.

Just because we aren't now, doesn't mean it can't happen. I think that it will, soon ......

[AtheistAlex]

Christians, persecuted by who? Other Christians?
I have never understood the reasoning for this inferiority complex, this paranoia among many of the theistic persuasion, not only Christians, but Muslims, Jews, (well...) etc.

Theists, esp. those that are Republican, have a lock on all the forms of American government, other than local, and the culture as the country is currently going into a socially conservative turn. By this, I mean that the so-called elites, the ones shaping the current society, are conservative Christians. Who is persecuting the Christian faith?

[argent_paladin]

" Christians, persecuted by who?"
In a word: you.

Actually, of course, it is much more complicated. But if you think that Christians cannot be discriminated against in America what about prayer in schools? Christmas dispays? Catholic health plans being forced to offer contraception? Traditional Christianity has never really been fashionable or in the majority. Atheists have a disproportionate influence in our country. Though a very small percentage of the population, they are influential in the top universities which are critical for our countries future. They also are influential in the legal profession.
Yes, Christians and conservatives are clawing their way back, but they still have a long way to go. If you think that conservative christians are in power, then why the gay marriage debate? Even ten years ago, it wasn't on the radar screen and now it is on the verge of becoming legal in many states (or already is). This is even though most theists are against it. And those that aren't, well, how much different are they than atheists if their belief in God doesn't shape their beliefs or behavior?
I think the number of real Christians is quite small, far less than the majority. Perhaps only 20% of Americans go to church weekly, which is about the bare minimum of involvement for a practicing, observant Christian. So, we can see why church-going Christians are truly in the minority and thus have real reason to fear persecution.

for percentages see: [url="http://www.trincoll.edu/depts/csrpl/RIN%20Vol.1No.2/Church_lies_polling.htm"]http://www.trincoll.edu/depts/csrpl/RIN%20...ies_polling.htm[/url]

[Paladin D]

One can argue that some of those things on the list are only offensive towards Christians, therefore we shouldn't enforce our beliefs. Though I'm curious, what about those on the list that actually discriminate Christians? Also, whatever happened to no religion in schools (as in public promotion by the school)? Kids dressed up and practicing the Muslim religion?

We aren't supposed to promote Christianity, but Islam is fine? I don't get it.


[b]Note:[/b] I'm not against schools that help educate student of different religions, but having children dress up and actually say Muslim prayers and other practices crosses the boundary of what secular humanists tend to scream [b]"Seperation of Church and State!"[/b].

Edited February 20, 2005 by Paladin D

[argent_paladin]

I take it back. Americans are being killed for their faith in America. I firmly believe that the Coptic Christian family in New Jersey was killed by Muslim fanatics. They were killed in the same manner as the Quran describes for the killing of infidels. See:
[url="http://www.aina.org/news/20050216084557.htm"]http://www.aina.org/news/20050216084557.htm[/url]

[Phatmasser777]

[quote name='MC Just' date='Feb 19 2005, 09:35 AM'] Oh Please Muslims started out living by the sword why is it a surprise that they are dying by it? Read some history. Remeber "live by the sword, die by the sword" ? That is true ya know. [/quote]
Good justification for genocide. *claps*

[Paladin D]

[quote name='Phatmasser777' date='Feb 20 2005, 06:04 AM'] Good justification for genocide. *claps* [/quote]
A universal rule when it comes to online debating: constant use of sarcasm ruins your credibility.

[Socrates]

[quote name='argent_paladin' date='Feb 19 2005, 08:25 PM']

And yes, David Limbaugh is not related to Rush.

[/quote]
David and Rush are brothers, in fact.

[curtins]

alright here it is:
there are different types of persecution- physical like in china and africa where christians are killed and beaten but there IS persecution of Christians in america but its a different type of persecution- its where they are being silenced most especially in schools- just look around they have to take out "under God" in the pledge- and they cant have the ten commandments in courthouses. Theres persecution of organized religion in this country- but more specifically christianity. Its in the media most deffinatly- just turn on the tv and you'll see. My freind went to public schools and they said that in sex ed talks they'd say have all the sex you want just use a condom- now that is just plain bad wrong and anti Christian. phatmasser777 said Americans are killing muslims all over the world-- Im sorry did 9/11 NOT happen??? Idk if you are american or not but I am a very proud one and for you to just ignore the 3000 people that died 70 miles from my house really ticks me off. And thats just to name one of the MANY attacks carried out by al quada (bombing of the uss cole, the embassys, etc) not to mention frequent attacks by terrorists in Iraq and in Israel against Jews. But for some reason you dont want to open your eyes to the horrible deeds these savages are commiting all around the world to all people- you are intent on saying everything bad you can about america and how dare we try and deffend ourselves from these terrorists and how dare we try and go after them to prevent another 9/11 or worse. How dare we. Lets all encourage and defend these poor oppressed women and children killers and the defenseless beheaders- yeah lets do that. Lets ignore the millions America has liberated, the lives it has sacrificed for the better of the world, the money it has sarcrificed for the better of the world. Lets ignore all that and stand up for poor mister osama bin laden.

im sorry im just quite furious right now

[argent_paladin]

Tho only ones trying to commit genocide on Muslims are other muslims. Saddam alone tried to wipe out the Marsh Arabs, the Kurds and waged a bloody war with Iran. No one has ever killed more Muslims than Saddam Hussein. Americans are not trying to kill all muslims. Some americans are muslim. They ahve supported many muslim countries and have allied themselves with muslim nations. Russia (in Checnya), China (in Uigar), India (in Kashmir), the Phillipines, etc are all killing far more muslims than America. France bans heaedscarves in school. Most european countries won't allow Muslims to immigrate. Turkey, Egeypt, Saudi Arabia, etc won't let Muslims form their own political parties that are based on Islam. But America lets in Muslims as immigrants, it allows Muslims to form their own parties, vote, express their religion freely, etc. If the world looked more like america, millions of muslims would be beter off.

[Phatmasser777]

Bull Argent.

[argent_paladin]

I am sorry if the facts don't fit your worldview. But facts are facts. It just doesn't make sense to you that Americans are donating billions of dollars to help Muslims they don't even know across the world in Indonesia (the most populous Muslim country in the world). At the same time, Muslims are actively killing fellow muslims in Iraq (terrorists there kill 50 native Iraqis for every American they kill), Dafur (Sudan) and other places.
These are all documented facts.