AtheistAlex Posted February 9, 2005 Author Share Posted February 9, 2005 [quote name='musturde' date='Feb 8 2005, 11:28 PM'] without the ideas of Gods, there'd be no atheists. which would mean that they creat atheists. [/quote] Without the [i]ideas[/i] of God, which precludes belief in such entities, there'd be no theists, actually...You see, the ideas of over-arching deities create deity-worshippers, or theists. Before such ideas, everyone is atheistic, whether they like it or not. [quote]so why do you capatalize it as if it were a proper noun? [/quote] Atheism? It's a specific concept. Not a religion, no, but it is still a definable human concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scofizzle Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 [quote]so why do you capatalize it as if it were a proper noun? Atheism? It's a specific concept. Not a religion, no, but it is still a definable human concept. [/quote] sorry I meant when you capatalize God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musturde Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 [quote name='AtheistAlex' date='Feb 8 2005, 11:32 PM'] Without the [i]ideas[/i] of God, which precludes belief in such entities, there'd be no theists, actually...You see, the ideas of over-arching deities create deity-worshippers, or theists. Before such ideas, everyone is atheistic, whether they like it or not. [/quote] No, they wouldn't even consider themselves atheists because there wouldn't even be theists for there to be atheists. You need people to believe in God(s) to be people who classify themselves as atheists. Atheists say "there is no God', before the idea of God, people wouldnt even be able to say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 It's too bad I won't be on here until Easter (come midnight tonight). This could be a fun debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtheistAlex Posted February 9, 2005 Author Share Posted February 9, 2005 [quote name='musturde' date='Feb 8 2005, 11:29 PM'] You didn't understand me. God, to atheists, exists as an idea. If he exists as an idea, he exists even by thought. [/quote] True that God exists as an idea, but not as a supernatural idea, rather as a manmade concept, you see? [quote]I simply don't believe the notion that someone cannot believe in the existence of God. Whats your real problem with Christianity and the Church?[/quote] See now, that's not nice. I was trying to have a civil discussion with *about 4 different people*, and then you try to make this an issue of revenge? For your information, I find that I feel equal unease with all religions, even Shinto. Still, I like talking about it with people because it can break down the barriers that make hatred towards atheists acceptable behaviour. Arigatou Gozaimasu, Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scofizzle Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 I'm sorry i didn't mean to come off that way.....i tend to be a little blunt.....just curious what is keeping you away from the Love Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtheistAlex Posted February 9, 2005 Author Share Posted February 9, 2005 [quote name='musturde' date='Feb 8 2005, 11:34 PM'] No, they wouldn't even consider themselves atheists because there wouldn't even be theists for there to be atheists. You need people to believe in God(s) to be people who classify themselves as atheists. Atheists say "there is no God', before the idea of God, people wouldnt even be able to say that. [/quote] That's what I was saying. There wouldn't be the term, most definitely. I was trying to convey that the underlying meaning, the lack of belief that atheism (maybe I shouldn't capitalize it...) is about would be far, far more prevalent. [quote]sorry I meant when you capatalize God.[/quote] Oh, okay. Most of the people who I argue with are Christian. By far. I wish I could've debated against some Buddhists in Japan, but they weren't having it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scofizzle Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 hah...thats the funny thing about Buddhism......no converts.....you are either born Buddhist or not....... (or is that hinduism?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musturde Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 [quote name='AtheistAlex' date='Feb 8 2005, 11:42 PM'] That's what I was saying. There wouldn't be the term, most definitely. I was trying to convey that the underlying meaning, the lack of belief that atheism (maybe I shouldn't capitalize it...) is about would be far, far more prevalent. Oh, okay. Most of the people who I argue with are Christian. By far. I wish I could've debated against some Buddhists in Japan, but they weren't having it. [/quote] No, because Atheism is a statement of belief against God, these people can't say that because they dont know what a God is. Without God(s), there'd be no man who was against the idea of there being a God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtheistAlex Posted February 9, 2005 Author Share Posted February 9, 2005 Probably both, since Hinduism spawned Buddhism. It has been a long while since my Asian Studies class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtheistAlex Posted February 9, 2005 Author Share Posted February 9, 2005 [quote name='musturde' date='Feb 8 2005, 11:46 PM'] No, because Atheism is a statement of belief against God, these people can't say that because they dont know what a God is. Without God(s), there'd be no man who was against the idea of there being a God. [/quote] Atheism is not a statement, but a position in one's belief, or lack of belief in a God or gods. For us with the term to describe those without belief in a God or gods, we would describe anyone with such a belief an "atheist". Do you agree? If so, then all those who would have a knowledge of there being no God or gods and would not have any belief in aforementioned deities, would be called, by us "atheists." (as we are the ones who have such a term) Make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musturde Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 [quote name='AtheistAlex' date='Feb 8 2005, 11:51 PM'] Atheism is not a statement, but a position in one's belief, or lack of belief in a God or gods. For us with the term to describe those without belief in a God or gods, we would describe anyone with such a belief an "atheist". Do you agree? If so, then all those who would have a knowledge of there being no God or gods and would not have any belief in aforementioned deities, would be called, by us "atheists." (as we are the ones who have such a term) Make sense? [/quote] No, an atheist is a person who claims there is no God. There wasn't even the idea of it back then. I guess we have to agree on the idea of atheism is to even argue this... and why the hell are we even argueing about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtheistAlex Posted February 9, 2005 Author Share Posted February 9, 2005 [quote name='musturde' date='Feb 8 2005, 11:55 PM'] No, an atheist is a person who claims there is no God. There wasn't even the idea of it back then. I guess we have to agree on the idea of atheism is to even argue this... and why the hell are we even argueing about this? [/quote] I dunno, someone started it. I asked about political positions, and someone started us on this. To understand "atheist", use the etymology. a~ = without theist = a person with a belief in a God or gods So, an atheist is a person without a belief in a God or gods, nothing more, nothing less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 If I were a mod, I'd say something quippy like 'Take it to the debate table' but instead I'll just say welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musturde Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 [quote name='AtheistAlex' date='Feb 8 2005, 11:58 PM'] I dunno, someone started it. I asked about political positions, and someone started us on this. To understand "atheist", use the etymology. a~ = without theist = a person with a belief in a God or gods So, an atheist is a person without a belief in a God or gods, nothing more, nothing less. [/quote] blech, then the term of Atheist would have been different for them than us because atheism in our society is a denial of the belief of God and before, if they are considered Atheist, we'd have a different definition of atheism for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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