Atrocities Vs. Catholics

[MartinLuther]

Thank you Chrysologus.

Sometimes I wonder...

...where is the love y'all?

[ICTHUS]

Good Question, Luther

"God does not work salvation for fictitious sinners. Be a sinner and sin vigorously.... Do not for a moment imagine that this life is the abiding place of justice; sin must be committed."

"Sin cannot tear you away from him [Christ], even though you commit adultery a hundred times a day and commit as many murders."

"A large number of deaf, crippled and blind people are afflicted solely through the malice of the demon. And one must in no wise doubt that plagues, fevers and every sort of evil come from him."

"An earthly kingdom cannot exist without inequality of persons. Some must be free, some serfs, some rulers, some subjects."

"As for the demented, I hold it certain that all beings deprived of reason are thus afflicted only by the Devil."

"As to the common people, ... one has to be hard with them and see that they do their work and that under the threat of the sword and the law they comply with the observance of piety, just as you chain up wild beasts."

"At Poltersberg, there is a lake similarly cursed. If you throw a stone into it, a dreadful storm immediately arises, and the whole neighboring district quakes to its centre. 'Tis the devils kept prisoner there."

"At Sussen, the Devil carried off, last Good Friday, three grooms who had devoted themselves to him."

"Demons live in many lands, but particularly in Prussia."

"How often have not the demons called 'Nix,' drawn women and girls into the water, and there had commerce with them, with fearful consequences."

"I almost feel like throwing Jimmy into the stove, as the priest in Kulenberg did."

"I feel much freer now that I am certain the pope is the Antichrist."

"I maintain that some Jew wrote it [the Book of James] who probably heard about Christian people but never encountered any."

"I myself saw and touched at Dessay, a child of this sort, which had no human parents, but had proceeded from the Devil. He was twelve years old, and, in outward form, exactly resembled ordinary children."

"I should have no compassion on these witches; I should burn them all."

"Idiots, the lame, the blind, the dumb, are men in whom the devils have established themselves: and all the physicians who heal these infirmities, as though they proceeded from natural causes, are ignorant blockheads...."

"In many countries there are particular places to which devils more especially resort. In Prussia there is an infinite number of evil spirits."

"In Switzerland, on a high mountain, not far from Lucerne, there is a lake they call Pilate's Pond, which the Devil has fixed upon as one of the chief residences of his evil spirits...."

"Many demons are in woods, in waters, in wildernesses, and in dark poolly places ready to hurt...people."

"Many sweat to reconcile St. Paul and St. James, but in vain. 'Faith justifies' and 'faith does not justify' contradict each other flatly. If any one can harmonize them I will give him my doctor's hood and let him call me a fool."

"No gown worse becomes a than the desire to be wise."

"Our bodies are always exposed to Satan. The maladies I suffer are not natural, but Devil's spells."

"Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has: it never comes to the aid of spritual things, but--more frequently than not --struggles against the Divine Word...."

"Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees must be put out of sight and ... know nothing but the word of God."

"Snakes and monkeys are subjected to the demon more than other animals. Satan lives in them and possesses them. He uses them to deceive men and to injure them."

"Some [demons] are also in the thick black clouds, which cause hail, lightning and thunder, and poison the air, the pastures and grounds."

"The best way to get rid of the Devil, if you cannot kill it with the words of Holy Scripture, is to rail at and mock him. Music, too, is very good; music is hateful to him, and drives him far away. "

"The damned whore Reason...."

"The Devil can so completely assume the human form, when he wants to deceive us, that we may well lie with what seems to be a woman, of real flesh and blood, and yet all the while 'tis only the Devil in the shape of a woman. 'Tis the same with women, who may think that a man is in bed with them, yet 'tis only the Devil; and...the result of this connection is oftentimes an imp of darkness, half mortal, half devil...."

"The Devil...clutched hold of the miserable young man...and flew off with him through the ceiling, since which time nothing has been heard of [him]."

"The Devil fears the word of God, He can't bite it; it breaks his teeth."

"The Devil, it is true, is not exactly a doctor who has taken degrees, but he is very learned, very expert for all that. He has not been carrying on his business during thousands of years for nothing...."

"The Devil, too, sometimes steals human children; it is not infrequent for him to carry away infants within the first six weeks after birth, and to substitute in their place imps...."

"The fact that [the biblical book] Hebrews is not an epistle of St. Paul, or of any other apostle, is proved by what it says in chapter two...."

"The winds are nothing else but good or bad spirits. Hark! how the Devil is puffing and blowing...."

"There is no rustic so rude but that, if he dreams or fancies anything, it must be the whisper of the Holy Ghost, and he himself a prophet."

"This fool [Copernicus] wishes to reverse the entire science of astronomy; but sacred scripture tells us that Joshua commanded the sun to stand still, and not the earth."

"To be a Christian, you must pluck out the eye of reason."

"...two devils rose from the water, and flew off through the air, crying, 'Oh, oh, oh!' and turning one over another, in sportive mockery...."

"We are at fault for not slaying them [the Jews]."

"We may well lie with what seems to be a woman of flesh and blood, and yet all the time it is only a devil in the shape of a woman."

"We need not invite the Devil to our table; he is too ready to come without being asked. The air all about us is filled with demons...."

"We should throw the Epistle of James out of this school [the University of Wittenberg]....

"What shall we do with...the Jews?...I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings...are to be taken from them."

"What shall we do with...the Jews?...I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews."

"What shall we do with...the Jews? I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach on pain of loss of life and limb."

"What shall we do with...the Jews?...set fire to their synagogues or schools and bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them."

"What shall we do with...the Jews?...their homes also should be razed and destroyed."

"When I was a child there were many witches, and they bewitched both cattle and men, especially children."

"Whoever wants to be a Christian should tear the eyes out of his reason."

"Women...have but small and narrow chests, and broad hips, to the end that they should remain at home, sit still, keep house, and bear and bring up children."

LOL. I find it funny that someone by the screen name MartinLuther is scolding me for hate...

[Jake Huether]

regardless of your opinion of them, the fact is that there WAS widepsread corruption in the church

Actually, there wasn't widespread corruption in the Church!

There was a localized corruption among some members of the Church.

The ONLY thing that peved Mr. Luther, was the fact that some Church leaders were selling indulgences.

All the other "reform" started when Luther began to become restless and resentful. They were based on envy and jealousey, not humility and sincerity.

[Jake Huether]

I didn't say that Jesus or the Holy Father supported the Reformation. Calling it the "deformation" or calling the Reformers (regardless of your opinion of them, the fact is that there WAS widepsread corruption in the church) "deformers" is a disrespect to another person's faith, the faith of our brothers and sisters in Christ no less. If you feel that strongly about them, but also want to be respectful and charitable, put "so-called" in front of "reformers." Attacking another person's religion to promote your own is truly sad (I've been guilty of it myself in the past). Responding to criticisms of the Catholic Church and her children by attacking non-Catholics is very immature, and not very Christian. Don't stoop to their level, but rather respond in charity.

No one is calling you are deformer. We are not targetting Protestants per se with this.

The ORIGINAL people who 1) knew that the Church inDouche wasn't corrupt, yet wanted to start their own personal religion, or 2) sincerely wanted reform among the church members, yet left the church because of the lack of patience and obedience are rightfully called DEFORMERS.

Jack Chick is a DEFORMER. Martin Luther was a DEFORMER. Ian P. is a DEFORMER. John Smyth, DEFORMER. Calvin, DEFORMER.

You are just one of millions that simply were drawn in by their lies. It isn't your fault, and no one is calling you a deformer. You certainly can't be counted with those that would consider themselves "reformers" either.

So, I don't know of any other way to say this...

Don't get offended by things that are 1) not dirrected at you or 2) although politically incorrect, maybe, quite accurate in actuality.

That's my two pennies.

And as Little Flower would say: no refunds! :P

[Ash Wednesday]

Ye forgot jolly good King Henry VIII.

In all seriousness, Itchy you are a very gifted writer! You deserve an A+ + + (like Ralphie's teacher in The Christmas Story) :D

[willguy]

minor note (although it seems you've already turned the paper in so its too late, sorry). You use the word dilapidated twice in the first couple sentences, which sounds awkward.

[VeraMaria]

any news??

sorry if i keep asking i'm just not very patient and very curious how this will go in an Anglican school.... :D

[ICTHUS]

minor note (although it seems you've already turned the paper in so its too late, sorry).  You use the word dilapidated twice in the first couple sentences, which sounds awkward.

I realised that, and I edited it in the final version. I'm 2 steps ahead of ya!

Yay for proofreading!

Vera, I'm curious to know how it'll go too. They all get sent away to Panel, so its not like my English teacher can be biased. (Although my English teacher isint Anglican)...but if Reverend Bland, our principal, marked it...it might be a different story. Then again, maybe not. I like Rev. Bland a LOT. He's a really really strong witness for Christ (even if he IS an Anglican priest with invalid orders!) :lol:

[Aloysius]

deformer is an accurate discription.. they de-formed the Christian Church into thousands of denominations. if they had re-formed, they would have produced one church, and then maybe i would consider them with more respect.

i apologize, but i consider Martin Luther and his gang as starting the deformation of the Christian Church while the Council of Trent and the gang o Bishops, Cardinals, and Popes started the reformation.

w/ever

anyway, i hope u get an A! it's an amesome piece!

[ICTHUS]

Although, to be fair, I think that the Pope at the time of Luther was partially to blame (Pope Leo X)

He said things like "Since God has given us the Papacy, let us enjoy it"

And he hosted 65 course dinners with puddings where little naked boys would jump out of them....

So yeah...he was extravagant and cared more about himself than the Church. IMO his pontificate was nothing but bad for the Church.

[cmotherofpirl]

Pope are promised infallibility, not impeccability.

[Anna]

puddings where little naked boys would jump out of them....

could I get that recipe?

just kidding, just kidding!!! :o

[Anna]

Attacking another person's religion to promote your own is truly sad

Yes, it is sad inDouche.

So, let's not sugar-coat it.

The people who've attacked Someone Else's religion to promote their own were:

Luther (Lutherans)

Knox (Presbyterians)

Henry XIII (Church of England)

Robert Holland (Congregationalist)

John & Charles Wesley (Methodist)

Joseph Smith (Mormon)

John Smyth (Baptist)

etc., etc., etc.

Catholicism isn't our religion; It is Christ's.

Christ formed His religion, and those listed above, along with others, de-formed It.

They didn't reform the Catholic Religion, but rather created their own religions.

They found fault with the Truths of the Religion founded by Christ, and they lured people out of Christ's religion and into their own.

If you feel deformers is too strong a word, we could use the words of the Church, heretics and schismatics, but that might hurt peeps' feelings.

And those who follow the deformers are not themselves called deformers, they're called protestants, since in practice, they still protest the True Faith.

Yes, this does seem harsh.

But it is the Truth.

Is it charitable to be dishonest?

To call them "reformers" is to flatter some of the greatest destroyers of Truth history has known.

They may have been sincere in their beliefs, but they were sincerely de-forming Truth.

Edited November 1, 2003 by Anna

[Donna]

what she said.

peep! peep!

[ironmonk]

I didn't say that Jesus or the Holy Father supported the Reformation. Calling it the "deformation" or calling the Reformers (regardless of your opinion of them, the fact is that there WAS widepsread corruption in the church) "deformers" is a disrespect to another person's faith, the faith of our brothers and sisters in Christ no less. If you feel that strongly about them, but also want to be respectful and charitable, put "so-called" in front of "reformers." Attacking another person's religion to promote your own is truly sad (I've been guilty of it myself in the past). Responding to criticisms of the Catholic Church and her children by attacking non-Catholics is very immature, and not very Christian. Don't stoop to their level, but rather respond in charity.

The "reformers" deformed the Christian faith.

reformer logic:

"Be a sinner and sin on bravely, but have stronger faith and rejoice in Christ, who is the victor of sin, death, and the world. Do not for a moment imagine that this life is the abiding place of justice: sin must be committed. To you it ought to be sufficient that you acknowledge the Lamb that takes away the sins of the world, the sin cannot tear you away from him, even though you commit adultery a hundred times a day and commit as many murders" (Enders, "Briefwechsel", III, 208).

That is a defimation of the Christian faith. Truth is not a disrepect to anyone... it is truth.

The reformers are spoken of....

Acts 20:30

And from your own group, men will come forward perverting the truth to draw the disciples away after them.

2 Peter 3:15

And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you,

16 speaking of these things as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.

17 Therefore, beloved, since you are forewarned, be on your guard not to be led into the error of the unprincipled and to fall from your own stability.

There was not "widespread" corruption. There was some corruption. The 95 Thesis of Luther was full of lies, and things taken out of context. If people could read for themselves, and were educated, then they would not have left the Church.

Calling the 'reformation' what it was, is not an attack. "Sin on bravely" is deforming the Christian Faith.

What is sad <i'm guilty of this now> is correcting brethern publically. If you have a problem with the way another Catholic posts something, you should send a message, not post it on the board.

God Bless, Your Servant in Christ,

ironmonk