bishop consent, mortal sin, and the eucharist

[Guest Aluigi]

Through a negative restrictin grace, God will not allow the Pope to bind the Church in error.

A person in mortal sin receiving the Eucharist desecrates it. We should suffer great anguish to know that some people cannot receive and thus do all the more to help them. Receiving the Eucharist while aware of mortal sin is eating and drinking condemnation unto oneself, as the Apostle St. Paul says.

Mortal sin, as I'm sure you are all aware, consists of grave matter, full consent, and full knowledge.

It is often more efficacious for a man to stay back and watch their brothers in Christ receiving what they have cut themselves off from. Pray a spiritual communion and God can help you if you are truly repentent, but you do not run the risk of desecrating the Most Blessed Sacrament of the Altar.

[Guest Aluigi]

Extra Ecclesium Nulla Sallus!
That means that outside of the Church there is ABSOLUTELY NO salvation. All outside of the Catholic Church go to the fire prepared for the devil and his angels. This is Divinely Revealed irreversable Catholic Dogma. Don't believe it? Then be anathema.

People who are inculpably ignorant of not being in the Church (we cannot judge whether or not anyone is inculpably ignorant. for all we know, everyone in the world is culpably ignorant) but seek to follow God's will through the dictates of their God-given conscience (the natural law written on all men's hearts) then it is possible that God will save them through extraordinary means by counting them as imperfect members of the Church, united to the Church in desire and intention and all that causes their division is not their fault. Ss. Thomas Aquinas and Pius X will suffice to back me up on this as well as the Councils of Trent and Vatican II and the Baltimore Catechism and Catechism of the Catholic Church and establish it as a sound orthodox belief.

However, if you hold that the Church has reversed the Dogma that no one outside of the bulk of Peter is saved, you hold heresy. The Church cannot and does not change her teachings.

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

[quote] How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?  Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, i sneccessary for salvation:  the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation;  he is present to us in his body which is the Church.  He himself explicitly asserted teh necessity of faith and of the Church which men enter thorugh Baptism as through a door.  Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse to either to enter it or to remain in it.

This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God, witha sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience-those too may achieve eternal salvation.

"Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to eveangelize all men." [/quote]


CCC. pp.846-848

[Guest Aluigi]

Amen, and read in the light of 2000 years of Church Teaching that teaches exactly what I just said. Notice the through no fault ignorance (inculpable ignorance) and the God's will through the dictates of their own conscience, and the crucial "may" which shows that it is a possibility, reaffirming that this would be an extraordinary act of God's grace and mercy upon imperfect members of the Catholic Church on earth.

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote]Ss. Thomas Aquinas and Pius X will suffice to back me up on this as well as the Councils of Trent and Vatican II and the Baltimore Catechism and Catechism of the Catholic Church and establish it as a sound orthodox belief.[/quote]

Notice the gap between Aquinas and Pius X.

Trent talks about baptism by desire only if you were going to become a Catholic strict sense of the word. We've had that discussion before. We came to the discussion that Trent is really unclear but I'd think leaning toward strict interpretation.

I wanted to move into what the Popes were saying during the "no salvation" and stuff but we didn't really go there. I also wanted to examine why people held to the "no salvation" in the stict sense, but you'll just say that's people being people ie unknownest. I think that indicates what was really taught.

Edited February 2, 2005 by dairygirl4u2c

[Archangel]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Feb 2 2005, 02:09 PM'] I wanted to move into what the Popes were saying during the "no salvation" and stuff but we didn't really go there. I also wanted to examine why people held to the "no salvation" in the stict sense, but you'll just say that's people being people ie unknownest. I think that indicates what was really taught. [/quote]
I thought there was no point to this thread. I guess the truth finally comes out.

[LiL Kat Said]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Feb 2 2005, 05:21 PM'] Anyone here that wants to show me some context or reasons to back up their tsance that the "no salvation thing" was for those without God in a general sense can do it. [/quote]
THe official teaching of the Catholic Church has long stated that the Church is necessary for salvation and that "outside of the Church there is no salvation." Salvation comes to the world only through Jesus. Jesus remains present in the world through his body, the Church. We say that the Church is necessary for salvation because Jesus is necessary for salvation. Without Jesus, who has chosen the Church as his body, there is no salvation.

Jesus and the Church are necessary to God's plan for salvation; however through ways known ONLY TO GOD, the Holy Spirit can lead those who know neither Jesus or the Chuch to unity with the Father.