Some interesting discussion about Enoch and Elijah

[goldenchild17]

Okay, so maybe I missing something obvious, but they went directly to heaven body and soul right?



Gen. 5:24 "Then Enoch walked with God, and he was no longer here, for God took him."

Hebrews 11:5 "By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and 'he was found no more because God had taken him.' Before he was taken up, he was attested to have pleased God."

2 Kings 2:11 "As they walked on conversing, a flaming chariot and flaming horses came between them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind."

1 Maccabees 2:58 "Elijah, for his burning zeal for the law, was taken up to heaven."


Alright. Well, isn't there a problem here? After all, the gates of heaven didn't open until Christ's death... So, what happened? Or is this like a proof-text of a place such as Limbo?

[jmjtina]

Q: In the Old Testament we see Elijah being taken (presumably) body and soul into heaven. I understood that according to Catholic teaching, only Mary has been assumed body and soul into heaven. Obviously, just men like Moses and Elijah could not get into heaven itself until Jesus’ time. But I’m still left with the quandary of Elijah: Was his body there ahead of Mary’s?



A: According to Scripture, Enoch and Elijah may have been assumed into heaven before the time of Christ. This is less clear in Enoch's case, since Genesis 5:24 says only that God "took" him, but doesn't say where. Sirach 44:16 and 49:14 make it clear that he was taken up from the earth, and Hebrews 11:5 adds "so that he should not see death."

In Elijah's case, 2 Kings 2:11 states that "Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." 1 Maccabees 2:58 adds, "Elijah because of great zeal for the Law was taken up into heaven. " Taken at face value, these would seem to indicate that both Enoch and Elijah were assumed into heaven. But the Church teaches that heaven was not yet opened to the saints because Christ had not yet come. How can this be explained?

One possible explanation is to say that they didn't really go to heaven but to the abode of the dead where the souls of the righteous were waiting for the Messiah to open heaven. A difficulty is that the abode of the dead, or she'ol, is pictured in the Old Testament as being down (e.g., Num. 16:33 speaks of Korah and his followers going "down alive into she'ol"), yet Enoch and Elijah are depicted as being taken up.

Another possibility would be to say they were taken up but to a different kind of heaven than the one Christ opened. Or it is possible to say simply that they received entrance to heaven as a grace which came from the redemption Christ wrought – only they received it early, as did Mary when she was immaculately conceived. Like Mary, Enoch and Elijah may have been foretastes of the good things to come. In such a case, they would be exceptions to the rule. But God can do what he wants.

[i]from Catholic Answers.[/i]


Among others, Enoch and Elijah are identified in the Old Testament as having been taken from this world by God without apparently going through the act of dying. We know much more about Elijah than about Enoch. Presumably Elijah went to heaven without dying. Moreover it was believed that Elijah went to heaven without having first died. Does this mean that Elijah went to heaven directly? Actually the Church has never held as official teaching that Elijah was taken directly to heaven without going through the process of dying.

Much less is known about Enoch, the son of Cain. Enoch is said to have walked with God because: “God took him.” No doubt Ecclesiasticus suggests that Enoch was directly taken to heaven. In any case, it is not certain that either Elijah or Enoch was directly taken from this world and assumed into heaven. We may hold that both Elijah and Enoch were mysteriously taken from this world without going through the ordinary human experience of dying. But the Catholic Church has never taught this as a certain article of faith.

[goldenchild17]

Thanks, I can live with that I asked because a friend brought it up and I was trying to find an answer, so thanks.