Oik Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 I agree with Adam in this one. I was invited to go to the FOP, but had already decided beforehand not to go. I have helped out in the charismatic renewal for 4 years. It's been my experience that the eagerness to be open to new gifts have widened the chance for abuses. I don't consider myself charismatic or traditional, just catholic. There's a time and and place (not at Mass) for charisms and gifts. I tend to feel more comfortable in reverant, personal, quite, contemplative prayer. I have, however, prayed in tongues and rested in the spirit before. I think Catholicism is a balance of tradition and charism, just look at our Pope! The one thing that does bother me about what Adam said is the whole people praying over others to get gifts. We never did that. I agree that the intention is good, the spirit people gather in is good, but that an order has to be about our Faith so that we are focusing on the right things. I'm with Theresa, I think i'll stick to the portcincula (sp). The pub thing is a great idea. Instead of Bible study, we could maybe study a little Catechism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fides_et_Ratio Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 [quote name='Oik' date='Jan 30 2005, 03:52 PM'] The pub thing is a great idea. Instead of Bible study, we could maybe study a little Catechism? [/quote] Don't they go hand in hand? Anyhow. I'm serious. I'd play cards at the pub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp2_rules Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Jan 30 2005, 02:22 PM'] That is the main problem Chris is it is not to just praise God as loud as you can. I would go everytime if that was it. The focus is on the charisms of the Holy Spirit, most especially the gift of tongues. And the laying on of hands for the charisms by the laity is something I have never read anything in approval of. There are other 'gripes' but I prefer not to spend so much time on them. As I originally said, I saw people there who were deeply in love with Christ and who were there under the best of intentions, and for that I can only commend the spirit in which they gathered. 1 Cor. 12:10 (KJV) To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 1 Cor. 12:28 (KJV) And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 1 Cor. 12:30 (KJV) Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 1 Cor. 13:8 (KJV) Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 1 Cor. 14:2-19 (KJV) For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. [3] But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. [4] He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. [5] [b]I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. [6] Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? [7][/b] And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? [8] For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? [9] So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. [10] There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification. [11] Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me. [12] Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. [13] [b]Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. [14] For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.[/b] [15] What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. [16] Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? [17] For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. [18] I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: [19] [b]Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. [/b] 1 Cor. 14:21-28 (KJV) In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. [22] Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. [23] If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? [24] But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: [25] And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth. [26] How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. [27] If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. [28] But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. 1 Cor. 14:39 (KJV) Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. [/quote] well, i didn't mean that it was about 'being as loud as you can'. i meant it wasn't meant to be a quiet thing, but an opportunity to lift our voices. i dunno. i don't feel qualified to make statements regarding the speaking of tongues. i know that there is much on both sides of that, and i'm not going there, as i do not know enough to either condemn or encourage it. so, i'm going to leave that as a personal thing between those ppl who practice that and ther priests. the University had its initial changing through the charismatic renewal. it's something fr. mike feels very strongly about. it's something the school is known for. thus, the FOPs are certainly going to contain elements of a charismatic celebration, just as daily Masses do. i think that at the FOPs there are ppl who go too far, but that's the FOP itself. i am only saying you cannot attend a FOP and judge it based on others that are there. when we go to Mass, and someone changes the 'he's' and 'father's' to 'god' or whatever, it doesn't mean i'm not going to go to Mass there. i'll try and not to sit next to those ppl next time. and it certainly doesn't change the fact that the Mass is still the Mass, and what ppl may do during Mass could be incorrect, but it shouldn't really affect you. if it does, you're not paying attention to what's important. i'll admit. the first FOP or two i went to i felt really put of place. but because i'm not the charismatic type, i learned to focus myself, and not pay attention to the others around me. Fr. can tell ppl to pray for the gift of tongues, but that doesn't mean i'm required to, or i get burned at the stake. and like i said, that is also very much his thing. his charism, so to speak. you can't judge the whole event from only attending one, and because of something he said. in fact, i may even suggest you talk to him about it. i'm sure he'd be glad to. fr john gordon could probably give you a better understanding of why he does that, and perhaps clarify some things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fides_et_Ratio Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 I talked to Fr. Scanlan last year. He was a nice priest, but he didn't help... (but I also talked with him about other things as well as the charismatic stuff about the University). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted January 30, 2005 Author Share Posted January 30, 2005 [quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' date='Jan 30 2005, 04:01 PM'] Don't they go hand in hand? Anyhow. I'm serious. I'd play cards at the pub. [/quote] You mean Fides will really poke her head out of her dorm? Saturday the 26th of Feb is the next FOP. Let's plan a holy hour at the Port for those that want to come and then I'll bring a couple of packs of cards and anyone that wants to can join in. I'm all for a short Bible/Catechism study, if someone wants to expound on what they want to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fides_et_Ratio Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Jan 30 2005, 04:21 PM'] You mean Fides will really poke her head out of her dorm? [/quote] I'm in the library as we speak. I'm only in the dorm with the door locked when FOPs are going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 [quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' date='Jan 30 2005, 03:25 PM'] I'm only in the dorm with the door locked when FOPs are going on. [/quote] do they come and drag u off to them if your door's unlocked ? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fides_et_Ratio Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 [quote name='StColette' date='Jan 30 2005, 04:27 PM'] do they come and drag u off to them if your door's unlocked ? lol [/quote] I wouldn't put it past a few girls I know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 [quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' date='Jan 30 2005, 03:31 PM'] I wouldn't put it past a few girls I know! [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oik Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 Hey Adam, i'll put something [u]short[/u] together by then. Any ideas? I could just go with the daily readings and then a two of CCC parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oik Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 Maybe an akathist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted January 30, 2005 Author Share Posted January 30, 2005 what is an akathist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oik Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 Todd, please come? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oik Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 [quote]The akathist is one of the most ancient ornces or collection of prayers in the Byzantine Church. It is a prayer of veneration, thanksgiving and petition. "Akathist" means standing because it is an expression of profound joy in recognizing the honor being paid to Our Lord, Our Lady, or the saint who is being venerated. An akathist, therefore, is prayed standing. The Church has composed several akathists dedicated to either Our Lord under the title of our Most Sweet Jesus, or to various saints, such as St. Michael the Archangel and All the Holy Angels. The most popular is the Akathist to Our Lady, composed in the year 532. Today, the Church has granted the benefit of a plenary indulgence to all who pray the Akathist of Our Lady, when fulfilling all the proper requirements. The akathists are designed to be chanted, but it is not necessary to do so if prayed individually, or in a small group. If chanted, the Preamble and chants are sung recitando, and the kontakia are sung in Tone 7.[/quote] Byzantine (meaning Eastern) Catholic. In-Line with Pope. So basically, it's an ancient prayer (in our case, no singing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fides_et_Ratio Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 We can discuss all the instances of the word "charism" in the Catechism and the Scriptures and what that word truly designates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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