School Of Community

[SallyCat]

This is either how I grew or what I learned with the help of GS this past week. I can't decide what is the "right word" to use in this case. Somehow the words that I have choosen doen't seem to fit either. Well here it is....

First I would say to myself, "I hate myself" and I hated that I hated myself, because I am what God gave to me. Later it was changed to "I hate my reality" Well my reality is what I have and if I hate it what do I have? So it changed again to "I am scared of my reality" This too did not seem to say what I was feeling so now it is "I hate that I am scared of my reality."

Sometimes the reality is just too real. To face it now, sometimes it just seems too hard.

[DesiringMore]

So, anyone who was at a SuperBowl party or watched the halftime show, want to make a judgement about it? How did it affect you? what were you thinking? what were you feeling? how did it affect those around you? Just was thinking, so i thought i'd ask...

[track2004]

Halftime shows are jumping the shark and last night was basically the last straw. I disapproved in a big way, but what bother me more was how some of my peers enjoyed it or thought it was funny. I read THIS ARTICLE and was actually happy with the FCC for once. Still lost most if not all respect for Justin and Janet and MTV.

[DesiringMore]

These were our Questions of the week to ponder over for next week:

How can we become more fully human in the face of reality in front of

us?

How can reality make us become more human?

...........

Anyone want to respond?? i look forward to hearing from you guys and what you talked about!!!

[Katt1227]

How can we become more fully human in the face of reality in front of us??

What a great question. I've been thinking about it a lot since I read the question.

I'll give my response based on my reality, right now. Which I have to explain a few things about my reality right now. It smells of elderberries. I've been hurt by close friends, and I've been left by others, and I'm very much alone right now, and it smells of elderberries. But through all of this suffering that I have been going through in the past couple weeks, it has made me more aware of my humanity. I recognize now that I'm hurt, and that I've been hurt by close friends, and that it's going to take me a little time to heal. I tried to pretend that everything was fine, that I wasn't hurt, that it was no big deal. THat wasn't reality. In reality I was destroyed, I was broken, I was hurting in my heart. And now that I realize that I am hurting, I can finally begin to let myself heal. I was feeling very alone, but was trying to pretend that everything was fine, which did not help me any. Now I recognize that I feel alone, and I've sought out the people who help me to feel loved and who help me to know that I belong. I have begun to beg again, really beg. I have also begun to risk again. This is the beginning of my healing process, and the root of what is human. Begging, and Risking. We risk all of ourselves, all of our humanity, on each other. it is only by taking these risks, friendship and love, that we can recognize our own humanity and the humanity of others. Begging is the plea for our desires, the root of which is Him, and this begging makes us aware of what we desire, aware of our own humanity and of the origin of our humanity, Christ.

I hope this makes sense, and that it answers the question.

God Bless,

[Katt1227]

okay, guys... here is the next question from Guissani's video that some of us viewed at Diaconia. I'd love to hear your thoughts

Question: What is your opinion of Western Culture? This question is important for us because we live in a country that seeks to be the accomplished expression of the West.

Fr Guissani: It seems to me that this is an all-encompassing question. I believe that, first of all, Western culture possesses values such that it has imposed itself both as a culture and operationally, socially, on the whole world. There is a small consideration to add, which is that Western culture has inherited all these values from Christianity: the value of the person, absolutely inconceivable in all the literature of the world, because the person is conceivable as dignity solely if he is acknowledged as not deriving wholly from the biology of his father and mother, otherwise he is like a stone in the stream of reality, a drop of a wave that breaks against the rock; the value of work, which all the world culture, ancient culture but also Engels and Marx, conceives as enslavement, it is likened to slavery, while Christ calls work the activity of the Father, of God; the value of matter, that is to say, the abolition of the duality between a noble and an ignoble aspect of the life of nature that does not exist for Christianity- the most revolutionary statement in the history of culture is St. Paul's, "everything God has created is good," 1 which is why Romano Guardini can say that Christianity is the most "materialistic" religion in history; 2 the value of progress, of time as charged with meaning, because the concept of history requires the idea of an intelligent plan.

These are the basic values of Western civilization, it seems to me. I did not mention another one, because is is implicit in the concept of person: freedom. If man derives everything from his biological antecedents, as the prevailing culture claims, then man is the slave of chance and thus is the slave of those in power, because reigning power represents the temporary emergence of luck in history. But if man is something that derives directly from the origin of things, of the world, the soul, then man is really free. Man cannot conceive of himself as free in an absolute sense: since before he was not and now he is, he depends. By necessity. The alternative is very simple: either he depends on What makes reality, i.e on God, or he depends on the chance movements of reality, i.e on those in power. Dependence on God is the freedom of men from other men. The terrible lack, the terrible error of Western Civilization is having forgotten and denied this. Thus, in the name of his own autonomy, Western man has become a slave of every power. And all the shrewd development of the instruments of civilization increases this enslavement. The solution is a battle to save-not the battle to stop the shrewdness of civilization, but the battle to rediscover, to testify, man's dependence on God. What has been, throughout time, the true meaning of the human struggle, that is to say, the struggle between the affirmation of the human and the instrumentalization of the human by those in power, has now reached an extreme. As John Paul II has warned so many times, the greatest danger today is not the destruction of peoples, killing, murder, but the attempt by the reigning power to destroy the human. And the essence of the human is freedom, i.e. the relationship with the infinite. Therefore, it is mainly in the West that the great battle must be fought be the man who feels himself to be a man: he battle between authentic religiosity and power. The limit of power is true religiosity-the limit of any power: civil, political, and ecclesiastic.

[DesiringMore]

"But if man is something that derives directly from the origin of things, of the world, the soul, then man is really free. Man cannot conceive of himself as free in an absolute sense: since before he was not and now he is, he depends. By necessity. The alternative is very simple: either he depends on What makes reality, i.e on God, or he depends on the chance movements of reality, i.e on those in power. Dependence on God is the freedom of men from other men. The terrible lack, the terrible error of Western Civilization is having forgotten and denied this. Thus, in the name of his own autonomy, Western man has become a slave of every power."

"And the essence of the human is freedom, i.e. the relationship with the infinite. Therefore, it is mainly in the West that the great battle must be fought be the man who feels himself to be a man: he battle between authentic religiosity and power. The limit of power is true religiosity-the limit of any power: civil, political, and ecclesiastic."

*Dependence on God is the FREEDOM from dependence of man*....we must remember this!!! more later when i find time and words to express what i want to say....

[DesiringMore]

"If you are unable to see BEAUTY, you are unable to see the Presence"

[BLAZEr]

ok, this has almost nothing to do with what we're talking about, but I bring it here to my friends because I need help seeing this clearly.

I am a youth minister. It is clear I am unline any youth minister this parish has ever had. I do not do things the way that they are used to do them. I do not involve the same people that used to be involved. I do not find interesting the same things that the youth minister used to find interesting. In fact, I am completely different than anything they are used to.

I work in a smallish town (13,000 people) in a large parish (1500 families).

When I came to the parish there was no youth group. Before they had a youth minister who they fired. Before him they had a mother in the Parish who was the fulltime youth minister and had around 30 kids (I'm not sure, I only count 20 in the pictures, but there might be more). The youth group was silly games and picnics and service projects.

I am not the type who does silly games and picnics and service projects. In fact, what I really desire is for these kids to be awake to the desires of their hearts. I desire for them to begin to see that their happiness lies in another. That coming together on Sunday night does not mean playing chubby bunny and having some talk about how wearing a ring will make you chaste. That coming together on Sunday nights means being a presence for each other and confronting their lives together. That the reason we come together at all is because we have been moved by another and desire him.

For some of my kids (9 or so) this has happened. For some of my kids (10 or so) this has not happened, but they come now and again hoping for something. For the rest of my kid (many of whom I've never met) this is so different from what they were used to that they don't come at all.

The kids who don't come would rather go the Baptist Church and sing "Shine Jesus Shine" and hear a 10 minute sermon about how God will give you everything you want if you just do "this."

I can't give them the Baptist Church. I won't give them the Baptist Church. But the parents of these Baptist Church Catholics are upset that I am not doing more to attract their kids away from the Baptist Church and to the Catholic Church.

They say that if I just make it more fun, then their kids won't go to the Baptist Church. I tell them that they miss the point. That I cannot give their kids faith. That Youth Group is not the point of a Catholic life, but Christ and the Church is. I tell them that a living faith in their families is more important than anything I do. I tell them that I can't do praise and worship with kids who think its an "activitiy" and not a prayer to God.

Am I completely crazy? What do I do in the face of all this? Do I ignore these people who want me to have a Gimmick to attract kids to Christ? Who want me to wrap up the Christian message in a "Shine Jesus Shine" package? Am I wrong for this job?

[Katt1227]

Blazer- here's my two cents, for what it's worth.

I know very little about youth Ministry, other than what I have participated in at my parish in High School. We tried to do the "Baptist Church" thing as you described it. Sang a few songs, played silly games, and had some kind of discussion/ speaker about some topic of Catholicism or Christianity. And it was good for me in High School, but I needed more as I grew older. It wasn't till Junior or Senior year that the silly games and singing songs wasn't enough for me.

Well, there's my experience, which does very little to help you I'm sure.

But here's my advice, sometimes being presence for people means staying in front of them where they are at. It means waiting on their freedom. So, if this means you have to play silly games and sing Shine Jesus Shine, then maybe that's what you have to do. But, don't give up on them. Keep proposing, Keep trying to get them to ask questions, to desire More.

[BLAZEr]

Here's the problem. I don't know how to play silly games. I am totally open to someone saying "Hey, lets play this game" but it doesn't happen. I am supposed to come up with the game. I am supposed to come up with the songs. I am supposed to do it "this" way and then everyone will be happy. Well, except me, because I have no idea how to do it and it will depress me.

lol, no, I understand totally what you're saying Kat, and I guess that's what I'm trying to do. I'm also asking them to stay with me. To say "Ok I don't totally understand this yet, but I'm willing to be here for you." And some do that. In fact, I have a good group of kids who do it. But they aren't the ones that "used" to go to Youth Group. So the parents of these kids who "used" to go, they come and they say "Fix my kid, he's broken and going to Baptist Church, and its your fault because you aren't doing things "this" way."

What do I say to that?

On a side note, and for DesiringMore, my I was exalted. This week we had our first School of Community in Brenham. A ton of people from Houston came up and spent the evening with me, to be with me in this endeavor. They will not be coming every week of course, but they wanted to come, this first time, to be with me. And here I was, in the midst of my friends, sharing a friendship with others. People who looked at us like we were crazy. People who looked at us and said "This is not how OUR parish does things." And still, in the midst of it, Christ was a presence. To me he was there in my friends who confronted this with me. Who came to say to me 'You matter to us enough to drive an hour to your town and be with you for your first school of community in this town." It was incredible.

And again, on this night, in the midst of me feeling "Out of whack" because of these parents who want things "their" way, Emmanuella says to me "I'd like to help you with the young people. I'd like to drive out here and help you to do GS or whatever you do." It was amesome. Like a prayer that was answered before I prayed it. Does that make sense? Today was when I was at my wits end. Today is when my heart was troubled by these parents comments and all of a sudden I remember Emmanuella saying "I want to help you." She said it yesterday, she was an answer to a prayer before I even had a chance to send it up to heaven!

[Schmandi]

Am I completely crazy? What do I do in the face of all this? Do I ignore these people who want me to have a Gimmick to attract kids to Christ? Who want me to wrap up the Christian message in a "Shine Jesus Shine" package? Am I wrong for this job?

Blazer - do not compromise. you are a youth minister called by God to teach the Gospels....and you don't need marshmallows stuffed in your mouth to do that..plus i don' think the words "chubby" or "bunnies" is in the Gospels.

Ok, so i hear your pain. I am a youth minister also. I have parishioners who want the "baptist catholic church" and i also have those who want the "Eastern Orthadox Church". I think often about what it is that continues to sustain me in my unconventional style of youth ministry and I fall back on first - grace, second - my love for the kids, and third a supporting pastor and parish staff. I hope all these things for you.

although i want my kids to understand right away the deepness of their faith (I want nothing more than to open their eyes) I have to meet them where they are. I have to listen to them, and really hear what they are asking for. So...when they tell me they want "chubby bunnies" and silly praise and worship songs....what i really hear them say is that they want companionship and community. So, without using the words companionship and community, i provide the opportunity for it. There is a group of kids who meet here on Sunday nights for 3 hours. For the first hour and half we play stupid games (chubby bunnies and other such stupid ice breaker games stright from the manual of protestant youth ministry games) and throughout the entire time they play... i point out the beauty around them.... i show them the community they are building.... i encourage them to risk everything on each other. Then, for the last hour and half we have the serious discussion prayer time. I take them out of the atmosphere where they "played" and take them to the church (where they are most reminded of God) and prepare a 10 minute discussion article (of my choice) that i read to them. afterwards they are to go off by them selves somewhere in the chruch and pray...alone or journal (soul writing) about the topic. After about 15-20 minutes i call them back together and ask questions that start deep...really deep discussions.

It was after doing this with my kids (along with other things like mission trips, and reatreats) for about 6 months did my kids come to recgonition of their own desire for more....more of Him and they began to want to learn about Him. After I saw this in them...I sent them to GS. I guess i could start off with GS right away...but like you've already started to notice, there will always be about 10 or so kids who only show up for the "chubby bunnies" So i give it to them...and i wait for them. But continue to ask them the HARD questions....keep stretching them....keep pointing out the beauty....keep standing in front of them....and keep praying for them.

that's all i know to do.

as far as knowing how to play those fun "baptist catholic fun games" check into the group's series of youth games. I could (if you want) give suggestions on games my kids have really enjoyed. Their favorite is "sardines."

I hope you were able to understand me. I am here to help if you need me to. I support your decison to stay firm with focusing first on opening the desire of their hearts. That is MOST important. The holy spirit will lead you where you need to go to do this. More than likely, it won't happen the way you think it should.

may God bless you in your ministry.

[Schmandi]

First I would say to myself, "I hate myself" and I hated that I hated myself, because I am what God gave to me. Later it was changed to "I hate my reality" Well my reality is what I have and if I hate it what do I have? So it changed again to "I am scared of my reality" This too did not seem to say what I was feeling so now it is "I hate that I am scared of my reality."

OK, sallycat...I guess I have a question. For the both of us to think about

How do we begin to love the reality in front of us?

Sallycat doesn't have to be the only one to answer this question....so i would love to hear everybodys thoughts.

:cool:

Edited February 7, 2004 by Schmandi

[Katt1227]

Blazer- I just wanted to say I'm so happy for you, starting up a school of community in Brenham. It's a wonderful feeling of belonging again, isn't it?? I know it was for me when I first proposed it to my friends here in lexington. It was like, Wow, there are other people here who are searching for the same thing I am, and who want more. What are you starting off reading?? We read Recognizing Christ, and now we are reading the notes from the video from Diaconia.

Schmandi- I'll respond to your question at a later time... it's too late tonight, my brain has decided that it's time for bed. And I think I'm going to have to agree!!

[cimlog]

Now this is what I call... amesome