Doubting My Faith

[littleflower+JMJ]

lets not forget that even saints had doubts...but learn what they did.

they ran straight to God, entrusted in Him, prayed to him, loved Him even stronger, never lost faith or hope, but ran to the source, Jesus Himself in the BLessed SAcrament.

my prayers are with you!!

+JMJ

<@>

[Lil Red]

hey flowery!

Yeah you!

Over here!

umm, hi!

[Guest jrob8503]

Teachings have not changed.

It's not only A&E saying this was true. I'm not saying it still stands in today's Cathecism, but venial to mortal is a pretty big change.

Site #1

Site #2

[ironmonk]

The Councils of the Catholic Church have condemned Semi-Pelagianism.

mustbenothing is good at twisting the truth. Anyone who reads a section of a council then totally pulls something out of context to twist and draw true believers away, either does not believe in God, or is made at God... to knowing false represent those sent by Christ and reject them, is to loose all chance at salvation. I know some of you are going to say "max, you've gone to far with what you said about nothing"... I say, I have not, he posts have proven it. He has said he knows that the Catholic Church was built by Christ, but lost it's way... he obviously reads actual Catholic documents and then looks for a way to twist what they say, and puts his own little anti-Catholic spin that is easily refuted when looking up the quote and viewing the parts before and after it. I mean if Semi-Pelagianism is his biggest gun in the bigoted and lying attacks he pulls on the Church, then game over.

Some have entertained angel's without knowing... I'm sure that applies to fallen angel's as well.

Mustbe comes up with some pretty creative anti-Catholicism... he's smarter than ian paisley and jack chick, but he is of the same caliber... a twister of truth.

(the following is part of my reply to Icthus via PM message)

There is alot more to the Council of Trent than that little piece.

Mustbenothing brought that up on the board sometime ago, and it was completely refuted.

Anytime you doubt the Catholic Faith, know this, it has to do with a misunderstanding... because of the simple fact that Christ built the Catholic Church...

Read post: Posted: Jul 30 2003, 12:39 AM on page:

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...wtopic=627&st=0

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...owtopic=602&hl=

What is semi-Pelagianism? Recently a Protestant apologist said that the Catholic position on grace is a textbook case of semi-Pelagianism. And is there something called just plain Pelagianism?

The apologist does not know what he is talking about. Some conservative Protestants accuse Catholics of semi-Pelagianism, but most don't know what the term means. (Ask them to define it the next time you hear them make this accusation.)

Semi-Pelagianism was a theological movement common in France in the fifth and early sixth centuries. It was an attempted compromise between Augustine's teachings on grace and those of the heretical monk Pelagius.

Pelagius said the human will freely commits good or evil and that grace is needed only to help the will do what it already can do on its own. He said that we do not inherit original sin, physical death, or spiritual death from Adam. We learn to sin only by following the bad example of our parents and others.

Finally, Pelagius said that Christ does not bring us new life; he merely helps us by the good example he set for us on the cross, and by following his example we gain grace and are saved.

Semi-Pelagianism was nowhere near this extreme, but it still denied important points of the faith. Its basic claims were: (1) the beginning of faith (though not faith itself or its increase) could be accomplished by the human will alone, unaided by grace; (2) in a loose sense, the sanctifying grace man receives from God can be merited by natural human effort, unaided by actual grace; (3) once a man has been justified, he does not need additional grace from God in order to persevere until the end of life.

All of these propositions, together with those of full-blown Pelagianism, were condemned in 529 at the second Council of Orange (can. 5, 10, and 18) and again in 1546 by the Council of Trent (<Decree on Justification>, chs. 5, 6, 8, and 13). It is thus impossible to say that Catholic views on grace and free will are semi-Pelagian, for the Church explicitly condemns the errors of the semi-Pelagians.

God Bless,

ironmonk

[cmotherofpirl]

I am also going through doubt.  It ranges from God not existing to God not caring at all.  I no longer trust the word of any man and have asked God for a personal miracle.  I've grown tired of people saying you can see God in the beauty of nature or in the goodness of people.  I want to see God or one of his miracles for myself. Why is the Church so skeptical of all modern miracles until they are rigorously examined?  There was no intensive study of Jesus' miracles, yet refuting them is a heresy. Why do some of the Church's teachings evolve as we discover more about the world?  Why wouldn't God have lead the Pope to a concrete set of rules from the get go, so things like the Crusades would be prevented? I'm also starting to think this whole "free will" idea is just an explaination for why God doesn't reveal himself to the entire world.  If people for a fact God exisited, I doubt they would violate his will.  Instead it's taught that God gives people the option, and those who don't are rejecting him through their free will.  So in turn, hell was concieved to scare everyone on the straight and narrow.  Believe in all the subtle hints that God drops once in a while or you are damned.

If He were to knock me off my horse and say "knock it off", then I would follow unyieldingly.  But chances are He won't, and I have no reason to believe in Him if He doesn't.  Maybe he should stop appearing to devout peasants who don't need proof of his existence and start scaring the hell out of people who are about to commit grave sins.  Say to the entire world, "This is me and I am inDouche here.  No cut this carp out and start living the way I told you".  That's much more effective than having other human beings tell you and putting your trust in them.  I'd assure you this world would change forever if He just said, "Here I am".

This whole experience hasn't been liberating, as most who go through this claim.  I haven't had the urge to commit mortal sin (even though nonbelief is considered mortal sin ) nor feel good about not being bound by rules.  I think the Church has gone so far to prove why it's philosophical elements apply so well to human life, that I see no reason to believe in the theology.  If this way of life isn't just "because God said so", then why believe in God.

Long post.

Jrob can you take this and start a new thread please?

[cmotherofpirl]

Well, yeah, I had, but they're not anti-Catholic. I go to an Anglican school, and my best friend, Luke, goes to my former non-denominational church. But he's always been respectful of my beliefs.

I think what brought up the "whore of babylon" dream (well I was sort of half asleep at the time, it was more of a daydream from which I woke up and was freaked out, and immediately thought of the catholic church) was my subconscious remembrance of the Jack Chick tracts I had been exposed to when I first converted to Catholicism (i.e. the death cookie tract).

In fact, the Catholics in my parish have treated me with more mercy and kindness than in my non-denom church, which was cliquey and disgustingly secular. It's the DOCTRINES that Im not sure about. Sure, the Church affirms Creedal faith (as someone said), but its everything else outside of the Creed that Im not sure about...

Icthus you are going thru a gethsemene/good friday experience.

Its an invitation to hold on to the cross, while your mind catches up to your faith.

Stop your studying, find a church and quiet your mind before the Lord.

THe only thing you should read are the psalms. No history, no apologetics, nothing.

FAith preceeds understanding.

May the Lord quiet your mind and bless your heart.

[cmotherofpirl]

Icthus here is an interesting quote for you to poinder:

Listen to these words of the Little Flower, St. Therese of Lisieux, in her autobiography, Story of a Soul.

"I get tired of the darkness all aroud me and try to refresh my jaded spirits with the thought of that brigh country where my hope lie; and what happens? It is worse torment than ever; the darkness itself seems to borrow, from the sinners who live in it, the ift of speech. I hear its mocking accents; 'It's all a dream, this talk of a heavenly country, bathed in light, scented with delicious perfumes, and of a God who made it all, who is to be your possession in eternity! You really believe, do you, that that the mist which hangs about you will clear away later on? All right, all right, go on longing for death! But death will make nonsense of your hopes; it will only mean a night darker than ever, the night of non-existence'...

Dear mother, does it sound as ifI were exaggerating my symptoms? Of course, to judge by the sentiments I express in all the nice little poems I've made up during the last year, you might imagine that my soul was was as full of consolations as it could hold; that for me the veil which hides the unseen scarcely existed. And all the time it isn't just a veil, it's a great wall which reaches up to the sky and blots out the stars!

No, when I write poems about the happiness of heaven and the eternal possession of God , it strikes no chord of happiness in my own heart - I'm simply talking about what I'd determined to believe. Sometimes, it's true, a tiny ray of light pierces through the darkness, and then, just for a moment, the ordeal is over; but immediately afterwards the memory of it brings me no happiness, it seems to make the darkness thicker than ever."

In quoting this excerpt from St. Therese, Fr. Groeschel, in his book "In the Presence of Our Lord" makes this consoling observation: "In a paradoxical way, it is only faith in God's presence that makes it possible to experience his absence."

I found this helpful since I went through a similar experience of doubt at Mass this morning. And I was especially touched by her comment on writing her poems, where she says: 'it strikes no chord of happiness in my own heart - I'm simply talking about what I'd determined to believe.' I felt much the same in the past when writing some of my poems that spoke of human love. I was writing more from a sense of hope than expressing a reality.

Even Saints go thru this.