Paladin D Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 (edited) Sorry if this may be a little off subject but... Is it perfectly "OK" for a Catholic couple to masturbate BUT before ejaculation...emm...bond together? It's still procreation, without the...the...thrusting... Edited October 23, 2003 by Paladin D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geetarplayer Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 thanks, dUSt. But here's another question. If toys aren't, then why would literature be? (literature, not pictures, just stories someone made up) I would think it would be, both are allowed, or both aren't. I understand videos and magazines, because someone posed for them. The literature leads your mind to lust after a woman or man that you have made up in your mind. And it's addictive. I myself am getting over mild pornographic literature (hard to explain why I consider it 'mild', but basically it lead me to lustful thoughts). And another thing about lustful thoughts: it sticks with you. It rapes your mind. Your body is trained to think lustfully even after you choose in your heart to reject that kind of lifestyle. I don't mean to gross anyone out, but because of my past sins, I now get 'excited' over the littlest, stupidest things, and even at random when I'm not even thinking about anything in particular... just because my body became used to that kind of routine back when I used to think about that kind of stuff. It's really annoying. I've decided to pray that God will reclaim my body for His glory... it's really gotten out of control. Please pray for me. :ph34r: -Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 (edited) in response to thedude, the Church does teach that sex is for pleasure. If you think about it, there is no way two people can procreate if at least the man does not achieve orgasm. I have also heard, someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the Church also teaches that it is OK for the husband to bring his wife to orgasm as well, as long as the act does not take away from the procreative aspect of sex. Pleasure is a good thing. God gave us sex for pleasure AND procreation. Not either/or. Pleasure is a part of sex, but sex is not for pleasure . . .the two ends of sex are UNION between Husband and Wife and PROCREATION of children . .. it's just a happy side effect that its pleasurable in a physical way too!! :D Now, the sex aids thing? I don't know about that . . . oral stimulation is licit as long as its a part of the sex act, but its also NATURAL In the same vain, it would ok for a couple to manually stimulate (just to sound gross and techinal) each other as long as it was part of a larger sexual union act . . . bringing something that says PANASONIC and runs on DURACELLS into your sexual intimacy is not NATURAL . . . Also, if you buy these sex aids you are also supporting the SEX INDUSTRY . . . most of those companies are involved in PORN in another way . .. that seems to me like shopping for medicine at planned parenthood . . . Please DEMONSTRATE how this is allowable . . . Edited October 23, 2003 by BLAZEr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foundsheep Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 My interpretation is that sex toys are bad. They destroy the act of love between two people and make it two people plus an inanimate object. Sex is not for oneself's pleasure, but as the Church states, but for procreation. Bonding not just procreation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 (edited) Sex toys always struck me as being a classic example of how much society has become obsessed with sex, but at the same time, BORED with it. They want more and more of the "thrill" and it becomes like a drug to them. "The kinkier the better" is their attitude. It's ironic how people think the Church's teaching on chastity and.. uh what is it... periodic incontenence? in marriage is so ridiculous, but from what I've heard people that DO practice that enjoy sex a lot more and don't get bored! I wouldn't know from personal experience since I ain't married. But my Catholic friends sure are lovin' *ahem* married life. :lol: Edited October 23, 2003 by Ash Wednesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP2Iloveyou Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 I wouldn't know from personal experience since I ain't married. But my Catholic friends sure are lovin' *ahem* married life. Same here. Currently, I'm in the seminary and the fact that I'm a virgin in every way makes it easier for me to be chaste. However, should the Lord not be calling me to the priesthood and is instead calling me to the married life, I can only imagine the joy I will feel when my wife and I express our love to each other in the greatest way God invisioned. That's why I can't understand why so many young people fornicate today. They say, "just use a condom and it will be OK." There's little chance for pregnancy or and STD. Aside from that statement being blatantly false, they totally disregard the fact that it is sinful and if left unrepented for, could earn you a one-way ticket down south if you know what I mean. They also care nothing for their future spouse. Imagine, the night of your wedding, you are about to consumate your marriage with your partner for life, and you look him/her in the eye, and say, "I hope you're as good as Jane/John." I want to be able to look my future wife in the eye, if God blesses me with one, and tell her that I loved her so much, even before we met, that I waited for her. Also, I realize many readers of this may have made mistakes in the past. Realize, God forgives you and it is never to late to decide to be chaste. When I was younger, I knew there was a line to not cross sexually, but I got as close to that line as I possibly could. Through the grace of God, by praying often, attending daily Mass, and praying at least one Rosary every day, these sins are no longer a problem for me. Nothing is impossible with God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Sorry if this may be a little off subject but... Is it perfectly "OK" for a Catholic couple to masturbate BUT before ejaculation...emm...bond together? It's still procreation, without the...the...thrusting... Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Anyone? I thought I did . . . or at least tried to . . . this is a pretty weird sitiuation you describe, but let me try again: If masturbation of each other (or even or ones self) is a part of the sexual act (part of union) than I would say that it is ok . . . but it seems disordered to me, if two people jsut sat next to each other and masturabted while watching each other, then just got together for the "climax" . . . first, the man would probably get there first, and second . . . why are they doing this again? All I can say is . . . virginity is looking better and better . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 I don't know, was just asking. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Also, I realize many readers of this may have made mistakes in the past. Realize, God forgives you and it is never to late to decide to be chaste. I just wanted to interject something here. Many girls (and some guys for that matter) have such low self-esteem that anytime someone shows them affection/love/etc. they jump to please that person. And if that leads to sex, or simulated sex or whatever, it makes them feel loved. Some may not think it's because they have low self-esteem. But it is. Is it a mistake? Yeah. Should we make them feel worse cuz they've made one? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jrob8503 Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 (edited) I have also heard, someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the Church also teaches that it is OK for the husband to bring his wife to orgasm as well, as long as the act does not take away from the procreative aspect of sex. Wait a second. Tell me this. If that is true, does it mean performing oral sex on a woman is OK as long as the sperm is deposited prior to the act, and the woman hasn't yet climaxed? If, yes. Then the claims made regarding the Church being unfair to women are bogus. Edited October 23, 2003 by jrob8503 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP2Iloveyou Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Wait a second. Tell me this. If that is true, does it mean performing oral sex on a woman is OK as long as the sperm is deposited, and the woman hasn't yet climaxed? If, yes. Then the claims made regarding the Church being unfair to women are bogus. Pope Pius XII said, "The Creator himself...established that in the [generative] function, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing eveil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. They accept what the Creator has intended for them. At the same time, spouses should know how to keep themselves within the limits of just moderation." So, pertaining to the issue at hand, I have heard it said that oral sex within the confines of marriage is morally permissible, as long as it does not in any way take away from the procreative means of sex. I don't want to scandalize anyone, so I'm going to not elaborate on this a great deal. I think what this means is that it can be done to the woman at any time and done to the man as long as the crucial moment is where it can lead to a new life. Now, I can't say for sure whether or not these were orthodox theologians, so I would take this with a grain of salt. My best advice: check "Theology of the Body." You can't go wrong quoting JP2. I was very hesitant to post this, since I do NOT know if this is official Church teaching or not. I DO NOT want to lead anyone to sin or to heresy. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, do not take this as dogma. It is only my completely fallible interpretation. I beg you, please check "Theology of the Body." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 23, 2003 Author Share Posted October 23, 2003 What the Church teaches is that oral sex can NEVER be an end in itself -- always a MEANS to an end, namely, regular intercourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjtina Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 just to make a quick interjection as well, in one of the Catholic Answers radio shows, they asked about oral sex and other "stuff" w/n marriage. His answer didn't go into alot of detail, but his statement was just because your married doesn't make everything okay to do. You must strive to make it holy. I'm looking it up...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicAndFanatical Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 is it me or is anyone else here feel odd about talking about this? I know its human nature, but the details in some of your posts are difficult to read for us people trying (stress trying) to remain chaste. just thought id ask, if its just me then so be it. my bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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