What's the diff. between the Ordinary Magisterium

[phatcatholic]

pham,

it is my understanding that the Ordinary (or Universal) Magisterium participates in the charism of infallibility but the Authentic Magisterium does not. how do we know when a doctrine is of the Ordinary Magisterium, and when it is of the Authentic Magisterium?

it is also my understanding that doctrines of the Ordinary Magisterium are irreformable, but doctrines of the Authentic Magisterium are not. what does this mean for doctrines of the latter variety? i know that we must assent to them as well, but should we expect them to change (since they are not irreformable)? are there any examples of a doctrine from the Authentic Magisterium changing?

thanks,
phatcatholic

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

Apotheoun's website may be of help:
[url="http://www.geocities.com/apotheoun/"]http://www.geocities.com/apotheoun/[/url]

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='thedude' date='Jan 22 2005, 11:46 AM'] Apotheoun's website may be of help:
[url="http://www.geocities.com/apotheoun/"]http://www.geocities.com/apotheoun/[/url] [/quote]
hehe, it was after reading his site that i had my question

his site describes the type of authority of the two kinds, w/o saying how u know when a doctrine is of one and when it is of the other. the confusion comes from the fact that doctrines from both magisteriums come from non-defining acts.

[StColette]

DEFINITION: MAGISTERIUM, ORDINARY

Any exercise of the teaching authority of the pope or bishops, with the exception of a solemn proclamation. Examples of this ordinary teaching authority include the teachings of a local bishop, the pastoral letters of the bishops' conference, the encyclical letters of the pope and the documents of Vatican II (because the Council did not use its authority to define any new dogma of the Catholic faith).

The universal ordinary magisterium is the teaching of all the bishops dispersed throughout the world with the pope. There can be cases of infallible teaching by the ordinary magisterium. Vatican II described the necessary conditions for this to occur: 1) the doctrine must be taught unanimously by all the bishops, 2) absolute assent on the part of all the faithful must be explicitly called for. Examples of such teachings not solemnly defined but taught as divinely revealed include some of the basic articles of the Christian faith: for example, that Jesus is Lord and that God raised him from the dead.

[url="http://www.disciplesnow.com/catholic/html/article227.html"]http://www.disciplesnow.com/catholic/html/article227.html[/url]

hmm this might help too [url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/Theology/MAGVICXR.HTM"]http://www.ewtn.com/library/Theology/MAGVICXR.HTM[/url]

[phatcatholic]

where's apotheoun when you need him.......

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='phatcatholic' date='Jan 22 2005, 09:26 PM']where's apotheoun when you need him.......[/quote]
I'm at school.



The way to determine the degree of Magisterial authority engaged behind a particular teaching is to focus on the extent to which the teaching is reiterated by the Magisterium, either Extraordinary or Ordinary. The more it is repeated the more sure one can be of the degree of engagement of the Church's charism of infallibility for the teaching in question.

It should be noted that the vast majority of doctrines taught infallibly by the Magisterium have been taught through non-defining acts, and not through solemn extraordinary definitions. A case in point is the doctrine that women cannot be ordained to the priesthood. When the Pope issued the Apostolic Letter [u]Ordinatio Sacerdotalis[/u] he was reaffirming the constant teaching of the Ordinary and Universal Magisterium on the sacrament of orders and its reservation to men alone. Thus, the Pope's letter participates in and confirms the infallible nature of the teaching of the Ordinary Magisterium as it concerns that particular doctrine.

As far as doctrinal development is concerned, an example of a teaching of the Authentic Magisterium that has been elevated to a dogma of divine and catholic faith can be seen in the teaching of the Second Vatican Council on the episcopal office. Prior to the council the Magisterium had taught that the office of bishop and the office of priest were distinct, but not necessarily distinct by divine institution, nor was it required that one hold that the episcopal office was essentially a fuller participation in Christ's eternal priesthood. This was left as an open question to be debated by theologians. But the Fathers of the Second Vatican Council declared that the episcopal office is of divine institution and that it differs from the priestly (presbyteral) office, not only in degree, but essentially, for the bishop has the fullness of orders, and so the priest acts as his co-worker. In this case a teaching of the Authentic Magisterium, which left some leeway for theologians to debate the issues involved, has been definitively settled by the Dogmatic Constitution [u]Lumen Gentium[/u] and the Decree [u]Christus Dominus[/u].

For additional information on the three levels of Magisterial authority and where various doctrines fit in the hierarchy of truths, click on the link below:

[url="http://www.geocities.com/apotheoun/professiofidei"]An Elucidation on the Three Concluding Propositions of the "Professio Fidei," and the Appendix to that essay.[/url]

God bless,
Todd

[phatcatholic]

forgive me for over-simplifying what you have presented, but am i correct in stating that, if a doctrine has been repeatedly elucidated by the bishops (including the pope) then it is most likely a part of the ordinary magisterium, but if there has not been much conversation by the bishops on a doctrine than it is of the authentic magisterium? (this would exclude those doctrines are a part of the extraordinary magisterium)

where would the doctrine of Limbo fall?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='phatcatholic' date='Jan 23 2005, 01:03 AM'] forgive me for over-simplifying what you have presented, but am i correct in stating that, if a doctrine has been repeatedly elucidated by the bishops (including the pope) then it is most likely a part of the ordinary magisterium, but if there has not been much conversation by the bishops on a doctrine than it is of the authentic magisterium? (this would exclude those doctrines are a part of the extraordinary magisterium)

where would the doctrine of Limbo fall? [/quote]
The Pope and the bishops in communion with him must repeat a specific doctrinal proposition as a part of their common teaching for it to be a part of the Ordinary and Universal Magisterium, but they must also have the intention of binding the whole Church to the doctrine in question, either as a dogma of divine and catholic faith or as a truth of catholic doctrine.

In the case you've presented, i.e., [i]limbus puerorum[/i], that teaching, which has been repeated many times over the past few centuries by the Magisterium is not [i]de fide[/i] in itself, although certain elements within that teaching are "of the faith."

The elements that the Magisterium has presented as [i]de fide[/i] are: (1) for a man to enter into the beatific vision he must be in a state of deifying (i.e., sanctifying) grace, and (2) no one who has not intentionally committed actual sins will be punished with the punishment of the damned. [see Blessed Pope Pius IX, [u]Quanto Conficiamur Moerore[/u], no. 7]

I hope that this helps.

God bless,
Todd