crusader1234 Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 I remember reading in Time magazine, that said something like in 70 percent of cases, if one twin was homosexual, both were. I'm not 100 percent sure on that statistic, but it was something sort of like that. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 [quote name='crusader1234' date='Jan 21 2005, 07:33 PM'] I remember reading in Time magazine, that said something like in 70 percent of cases, if one twin was homosexual, both were. I'm not 100 percent sure on that statistic, but it was something sort of like that. Just a thought. [/quote] That still means 30 percent of identical twins (who are genetically identical) where one is homosexual, the other is straight! This clearly proves that homosexuality is not determined purely by genetics! If it were genetically determined, the figures would be 100%. Keep in mind also, that unless the twins are separated, they will likely share the same childhood experiences that would lead to the homosexual disorder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 True Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 [quote name='Aluigi' date='Jan 21 2005, 06:58 PM'] there is a basic consensus that it deals with some sort of hormonal imbalance and such. hormonal imbalances can be birth defects or they can be developed by situations. [/quote] Increasing male hormones does not change anyone from gay to straight (even temporarily). Therefore hormones isn't the issue. If it was, homosexuality could be "cured" by taking hormone supplements. This has never worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 never said it was about simple gender hormones. it's a complicated thing, chemicals and hormones and stuff. but whatever, i'm not that concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 why do you look at it as a disease that needs curing. That is not the way to help those people. You don't just find someone and say you have a disease. i will help you cure it. Now i see why many people are pushed away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 [quote name='crusader1234' date='Jan 21 2005, 07:33 PM'] I remember reading in Time magazine, that said something like in 70 percent of cases, if one twin was homosexual, both were. I'm not 100 percent sure on that statistic, but it was something sort of like that. Just a thought. [/quote] There was an article in the paper years ago about a couple of college basketball playing lesbians. They were two of a set of identical triplets. They both played for Macalester (which is a pretty liberal college). The third triplet also played basketball, but for Northwestern College (which is a Christian college). She was not a lesbian... and she was barely mentioned in the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 jezic, who are you talking about? i said it has to be case by case, if they want to be "cured" they can go to a psychologist, and the psychologist ought to be careful and see if he is someone who can healthily change. about 1/3 of people that seek help can be healthily changed, there is no reason to criticize these people. about 1/3 can be changed to have no attraction at all (again, if this is what they want) and about 1/3 cannot be changed they're too much formed into it. no Catholic homosexual is required to change, everyone is simply called to chastity and to those homosexuals who continue with same sex attraction are called to celibacy. chastity is the most important thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirMyztiq Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 A gay guy once wrote me a letter. He didn't declare his love or anything he thought I was cute! Anyways I was freaked out. So, I never responded or even talked to him. A year later I had him for a class and he was a pretty cool guy...girl...hmmm But BOT...Who knows? All I know is that we must be unified and the only way this place will be anybetter is by acceptance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 [quote name='Aluigi' date='Jan 21 2005, 09:10 PM'] jezic, who are you talking about? i said it has to be case by case, if they want to be "cured" they can go to a psychologist, and the psychologist ought to be careful and see if he is someone who can healthily change. about 1/3 of people that seek help can be healthily changed, there is no reason to criticize these people. about 1/3 can be changed to have no attraction at all (again, if this is what they want) and about 1/3 cannot be changed they're too much formed into it. no Catholic homosexual is required to change, everyone is simply called to chastity and to those homosexuals who continue with same sex attraction are called to celibacy. chastity is the most important thing. [/quote] No i understand that. I didn't mean to direct at anyone on these boards. It is really just beginning to occur to me though, that some people are judged by one thing. I might live in a box (nd) but it is just something i never really thought about before. The attitude here is more nuturing than other places. That i agree with. I might not be able to understand how this works. It is strange living here and talking to people outside. Sometimes gay people don't need a psychologist to tell them anything, all they need is a Christian willing to help them through the tight spot. From the comments on this thread, i would gather that people think they should just stop what they are doing and seek help. What is it like in their shoes?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Actually, I wear those shoes. They're pretty uncomfortable especially when walking down the Christian path, but moreso actually when you give in and do that stuff. Maybe it's just cause I've never been able to convince myself that it's right. Or maybe there really is something wrong with it and acting upon it does hurt you, cause a lot of people active in the lifestyle are very troubled. It's about chastity. If you find yourself attracted to the opposite sex, make sure it's not an unhealthy repression. A good psychologist can help, or even just a good priest of course. The one psychologist I met once got into psychology dealing with anger but quickly discovered the field of troubled homosexuals. He was all about helping them change if they want to but really first of all working through their anger issues and many of the other things that trouble them. If they stay attracted to the same sex, celibacy is good. Homosexual actions are sinful. But sometimes they find when their issues are really worked out they are attracted to the opposite sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 You know who is the most help to me in that struggle? My girlfriend. wow am I a wierd one ... I'm actually kind of turning "bi" by the world's terms or something wierd like that, though the thing is: I'm not attracted to most girls or especially images of them. But I am in love with one, if that makes any sense. But like I said: it's a case-by-case thing. there is no one blanket statement that is going to apply to everyone who struggles with SSA (same-sex-attraction). There are different degrees of SSA and different degrees of psychological identification with the SSA and many complicated factors that affect how much one is prone to SSA. It's about CHASTITY first, then comes all the other considerations to help alleviate the struggles or help them deal with the struggles in a Holy manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Friday Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 [quote name='Apotheoun']No one is born a "homosexual," because the homosexual inclination is not an ontological reality; instead, it is a relative absence of the good in the will of the creature. Like all other forms of concupiscence it is objectively disordered and is to be overcome by the power of God's grace.[/quote] That's it. You will either cite the exact passage from a Church document stating this alleged doctrine (particularly the part where it "is to be overcome by the power of God's grace"), or you will retract it, or I will demand that the moderators delete all references to it as "Church teaching" based on phorum guideline #3, lack of respect to the religious -- by lying about what is and is not Church teaching, those who promote this falsehood cause scandal to the faithful and misrepresent the teaching of the bishops and the pope. Misrepresentation of the bishops and the pope is showing them a lack of respect. If you do not either prove your statement or retract it, I demand that it and any other statements like it be edited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 why do you come out so defensive?? Each person is allowed their own say whether right or wrong. Why don't you prove it? This is a friendly discussion. We are trying to help each other understand. Demands like that don't help. Does it really have to be something negative. You could show your proof that the church doesn't support it or say politely that the statement should be retracted. Asking for it to be deleted isn't going to do any good. Nothing will be proved either way then. If that is what you seek then i ask God to grant you it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 [quote name='Aluigi' date='Jan 21 2005, 10:12 PM'] You know who is the most help to me in that struggle? My girlfriend. wow am I a wierd one ... I'm actually kind of turning "bi" by the world's terms or something wierd like that, though the thing is: I'm not attracted to most girls or especially images of them. But I am in love with one, if that makes any sense. But like I said: it's a case-by-case thing. there is no one blanket statement that is going to apply to everyone who struggles with SSA (same-sex-attraction). There are different degrees of SSA and different degrees of psychological identification with the SSA and many complicated factors that affect how much one is prone to SSA. It's about CHASTITY first, then comes all the other considerations to help alleviate the struggles or help them deal with the struggles in a Holy manner. [/quote] It is cool that you are open about that. It is strange coming from ND yet again. I wish you the best on your path. I don't think that being gay (or anything else for that matter) is a disorder or a disease as some would call it. It is something that God has given you, a unique path that is hidden from the eyes of the wise. I just pray that you will find your way. I could say i know what its like but honestly i don't. I thought about the difference between gay and straight people for a long time when i didn't do anything about it. Now i am just kinda me. It is amazing to me because i don't really feel attracted to anything on the earth. My soul longs for something more. That has become my answer to the struggle. There is nothing to hide because nothing ever changed. I have always been that way. Maybe my mind will change sometime but i tend to think not. I just like being single and it is fine with me to stay this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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