cmotherofpirl Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Sin is not a natural part of the human person either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jan 21 2005, 02:49 PM'] Sin is not a natural part of the human person either. [/quote] Correct. Neither concupiscence nor sin are natural to man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Death, suffering, and disease all come from Original Sin though I thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Jan 21 2005, 03:54 PM'] What are your sources and how are they more "Catholic" than the ones which contradict your own opinions? There is a well-established connection between boys lacking a strong father figure to relate to and homosexuality. Thus the great increase in homosexuality in today's world in which many grew up with weak or absent fathers. Much of "mainstream" psychological literature plays this down, because of pressure from the now-powerful "gay" political lobby, for whom homosexuality being a fixed biological characteristic is part of their propoganda. Stop pretending politically correct positions on this issue are somehow more "Catholic" than those which you disagree with! [/quote] A) I didn't say my sources were Catholic I just wanted everyone to be clear that yours are just as much opinion and speculation as mine according to the Church. B) You think modern sources are wrong because of a powerful gay lobby? Did it ever occur to you that the Catholic Medical Association might be biased? Did it ever occur to you that the psychiatric studies of 30 years ago might be biased or flawed? Give me a break. All sources have bias. You just pretend that yours somehow represent an objective truth that doesn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Some sources are more objective than others. You must understand the basic philosophical assumptions underlying any study Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 [quote name='jezic' date='Jan 21 2005, 05:32 PM'] You don't have to fix the disorder. There might not be one. Just fix thier attitude about stuff like sex. [/quote] That is the disorder... the attitude. There are many levels to the disorder. There are many deep rooted issues with this disorder. It can be corrected. It takes a lot of time and effort. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jan 21 2005, 04:47 PM'] This disordered attraction [/quote] i understand your position. I agree with you i just wouldn't call it disordered. It doesn't seem polite. I wouldn't like being called disordered because of one choice. I agree that it is not natural, but disordered just kinda pushes people away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Apotheon's all about correct theological terminology though, and people should read his posts as such. When they do, his posts are quite edifying. Even when people don't then when it's not a controversial issue they're also edifying. But anyway, he is correct. Anyway, there are always common experiences between people with homosexual attraction. That's part of what the CMA has documented. Is that a coincidence? Probably not. Is it also possible that someone is born more inclined towards that? perhaps. The Church does not teach that this is not a psychological disorder that people are born with. It would not make it an ontological reality intrinsic to the person anymore than being born with cancer makes cancer somehow ontologically intrinsic to the person. All you really need to know is that people that struggle with it ought to be chaste (EVERYONE ought to be chaste). That means no sex outside of marriage, marriage means man and woman. Thus so long as there is no attraction to the opposite sex chastity means celibacy. I don't think people should criticize those that do get psychological help. I also don't think people should criticize those that decide not to. People that do offer psychological help need to recognize that not everyone will be able to change. The CMA tends to see that people that are involved longer in the lifestyle and such are the least able to change, but who knows. NARTH says that 2/3 of homosexuals are not open to healthy change to attraction to the opposite sex (to change them would become unhealthy repression). 1/3 can change to be attracted to the opposite sex, 1/3 simply loose all sexual attraction, and 1/3 retain same sex attraction. It's on an individual case by case basis. Chastity is the key, everything else is secondary. If changing helps them to be more chaste, then they should change. If changing them is going to push them into unhealthy repression that simply causes seething anger and secret sexual acts hidden from the world around them, that is quite unhealthy and should never be supported. It's better that they struggle with the temptation, admit it, and follow chastity than they say it's all better and keep it all inside. Treatment has to be aware of that. There are good psychologists who really are quite good at that and will not atttempt to change people if it would make them worse, I met one who was assosiated with Courage and the CMA once. [url="http://www.couragerc.net"]http://www.couragerc.net[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 (edited) Dis-ordered simply means point in the wrong direction, the affections are to the same sex instead of the opposite. This is the way the Church uses it. Edited January 21, 2005 by cmotherofpirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 I think that homosexuality is God's way of calling someone to a life of chastity. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='Jan 21 2005, 06:46 PM'] I think that homosexuality is God's way of calling someone to a life of chastity. Just a thought. [/quote] I dunno. I have no sex drive. I think that's a better way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='Jan 21 2005, 06:46 PM'] I think that homosexuality is God's way of calling someone to a life of chastity. Just a thought. [/quote] EVERYONE's called to a life of chastity. You probably mean celibacy. In which case, this is too much of a blanket statement. It has to be dealt with on an individual basis. You can't just say: Oh, you're homosexual, you must be celibate your whole life. You can't just say: Oh, you're homosexual, you have to be changed. It's too complicated for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bookwyrm Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 It's definitely not genetic - how could you pass on a gene for same sex attraction? It doesn't seem possible that you can just be born that way. It's something that you develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aluigi Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 there is a basic consensus that it deals with some sort of hormonal imbalance and such. hormonal imbalances can be birth defects or they can be developed by situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts