spathariossa Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 You're both completely wrong. Modern scholarship shows that the "sissy boy" studies of the 1960's and 1970's don't correlate to adult homosexuality at all. The truth is that people who have those experiences as children only have negligibly higher rates of homosexuality. It cannot reasonably be seen as a predictor for SSA. I'm so tired of people taking flawed research from people like John Money and holding it up as gospel truth. Also - it cannot be unlearned. This is a total myth. It can be repressed but not unlearned. Finally, the Catholic church holds no teaching one way or the other on the issue. I want to make it clear that the CMA has nothing to do with the Catholic church and furthermore the Church does not teach or advise that one attempt to "cure" homosexuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 [quote name='jezic' date='Jan 21 2005, 03:32 PM'] See i think part of the problem there is that the people wanted them to change. THat really isn't fair to do to someone. Gay people are people. THat doesn't change when they are gay. My premise is that they need to live Godly lives and then who cares if they are gay or not because they aren't going to go out and do stupid things with every guy they find. They wouldn't do that at all. You don't have to fix the disorder. There might not be one. Just fix thier attitude about stuff like sex. No i am not picking on gay people. i would do the same thing to straight ones as well. We are [u][b]all[/b][/u] called to live a life of giving of ourselves and sacrificing for others and following God's commands. I don't think he ever commanded people not to be gay. He just said live a life that is chaste and virtuous. [/quote] Then why are you concerned whether it is born or learned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 NOw that i think about it more i am not really. It is something i think about like almost everything else with anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 For more recent information, check out [url="http://narth.com/docs/throckarticle.html"]this[/url] article. A relevant quote: "My literature review contradicts the policies of major mental health organizations because it suggests that sexual orientation, once thought to be an unchanging sexual trait, is actually quite flexible for many people, changing as a result of therapy for some, ministry for others and spontaneously for still others." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 I'm going to leave the debating homosexuality to Ironmonk and Spath, but I just figured out that even if people are born homosexual (you guys can debate that), its not God's creation. People have not been, and will never be, born perfect since the fall. This is the result of original sin. Humans are born with sin, and it is within human nature to be tempted to sin thruought life. It is wrong to think that people are born perfect. God doesn't create physiological and psychological disorders, humans are responsible for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 [quote name='spathariossa' date='Jan 21 2005, 03:32 PM'] You're both completely wrong. Modern scholarship shows that the "sissy boy" studies of the 1960's and 1970's don't correlate to adult homosexuality at all. The truth is that people who have those experiences as children only have negligibly higher rates of homosexuality. It cannot reasonably be seen as a predictor for SSA. I'm so tired of people taking flawed research from people like John Money and holding it up as gospel truth. Also - it cannot be unlearned. This is a total myth. It can be repressed but not unlearned. Finally, the Catholic church holds no teaching one way or the other on the issue. I want to make it clear that the CMA has nothing to do with the Catholic church and furthermore the Church does not teach or advise that one attempt to "cure" homosexuals. [/quote] What are your sources and how are they more "Catholic" than the ones which contradict your own opinions? There is a well-established connection between boys lacking a strong father figure to relate to and homosexuality. Thus the great increase in homosexuality in today's world in which many grew up with weak or absent fathers. Much of "mainstream" psychological literature plays this down, because of pressure from the now-powerful "gay" political lobby, for whom homosexuality being a fixed biological characteristic is part of their propoganda. Stop pretending politically correct positions on this issue are somehow more "Catholic" than those which you disagree with! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 It may very well be possible that a person could be born with a tendency to develop a same-sex attraction more so than others, but others are born with a tendency to become easily addicted to alcohol., and so on. A tendency does not mean that the person will be a homosexual, just that it may become an issue. It's also possible that the environment a person grows up in may contribute to the influence of this tendency. I'm just throwing out a possible hypothesis; I'm not saying any of this is true. In my opinion, I think it is a cross that certain people are presented with to bear. While some are tempted by homosexuality, others have to struggle with different sins. We all have to overcome some type of temptation, some much more difficult than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 [quote]some much more than others.[/quote] Each person is given what they can carry. I think that is from a scripture verse somewhere. i do agree that we are all called to live a good life though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 [quote] I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish he didn't trust me so much. ---Mother Teresa [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 I like that. Awesome saying. (i know other people have said something with the same effect before.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 There is no credible scientific evidence that anyone is born a homosexual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennypacker11 Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Not having studied the psychology a great deal, I can't really comment much on whether homosexuality is something someone is born w/ or something that someone becomes through experiences, generally in their youth. However, I think that one important thing to note is that homosexuality is not a [i]mere[/i]choice made by someone; it is much much deeper (again, the actual cause of it, I do not know). I have several gay friends and all of them struggled deeply with the realization that they are gay (they lamented that they can't get married in a Catholic Church, that they can't have children, etc). Having these friends, and talking to others, has taught me that [i]for the vast majority[/i] of homosexuals, they do not choose their orientation (and in fact, when I think about it (and I think when all of us heterosexuals do) I never really [i]choose[i/] to be attracted to women; I just am). So, I think that it is a distortion of reality when people argue that homosexualtiy is a mere choice and it gets us no further to uncovering the true cause behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 No one is born a "homosexual," because the homosexual inclination is not an ontological reality; instead, it is a relative absence of the good in the will of the creature. Like all other forms of concupiscence it is objectively disordered and is to be overcome by the power of God's grace. God bless, Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Attraction may not be a choice, but behavior always is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jan 21 2005, 02:44 PM'] Attraction may not be a choice, but behavior always is. [/quote] This disordered attraction is a result of the fall of man from grace; therefore, it is not a natural part of the constitution of the human person. Moreover, if this disordered inclination is acted upon it is always and intrinsically gravely immoral. God bless, Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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