Guest chi rho Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 ok so i am in school and we had this debate about homosexuality. i didn't know but people beilieve that some people are born homosexual and i was like "umm no they choose to be homosexual." of course they told me some evidence and the evidence that they brought to me just didn't help at all. i don't understand how someone is born homosexual. from a religious point of view of course God didn't creat humans to be homosexual, thats why he created a Adam and Eve, a man and a women, not a man and man, and women and women. so what do yall think? i wanna hear other peoples view on this topic. And what is the evidence that supports this theory of homosexuals being born homosexual's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 honestly i don't know that humans can say what God is doing with people today. It might be that some of them are. It might be hard coded into people's genes. I don't think that we really know for sure. The important part is God created them and we need to respect that. Honestly i still like people that make that choice. They are still children of God. That doesn't change. I just ask them to abide by the same rules that heterosexual couples are supposed to. Like no sex before marriage and denying life in any form is a mortal sin. If they abide by those rules then personally i think they are fine. Some people really try to live virtuous lives. Some of those people are gay. it doesn't matter. Living a godly life and following the commands of Christ is what counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Sexual attraction is a learned response. Here is what the Catholic Medical Association has to say about it.... [url="http://www.moraltruth.com/mtbbs/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=51"]http://www.moraltruth.com/mtbbs/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=51[/url] God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 (edited) Despite what the "Gay Rights" movement says, there is no evidence that anyone is born homosexual. If homosexualtiy were genetic, sets of identical twins would always have the same "orientation." But there are many cases of identical twins having different sexual orientation. Most homosexuals probably don't choose to have homsexual attractions, but it is a psychological disorder, not someting pre-determined at birth. Edited January 21, 2005 by Socrates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 i have never understood how anyone can say that. (people aren't born gay) that doesn't mean it is possible they aren't. I also must mention i prolly don't know. I have never met anyone outside ND that is gay. Living in small town ND we are really sheltered. I only know 1 gay person and i know many people. The one i do know isn't from ND anyway. It seems like a conflict from the outside world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1337 k4th0l1x0r Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Homosexuality isn't genetic because of the identical twin situation. I know there is more that you're born with than just genetics, but sexual preferences aren't set in stone at birth (actually, you'd think that everyone would be born heterosexual because of the simplicity of a child). Saying a baby is going to grow up to be homosexual is like saying that his favorite food will be pizza or he'll like rock music as opposed to country music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Jan 21 2005, 04:27 PM'] Sexual attraction is a learned response. Here is what the Catholic Medical Association has to say about it.... [url="http://www.moraltruth.com/mtbbs/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=51"]http://www.moraltruth.com/mtbbs/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=51[/url] God Bless, ironmonk [/quote] CMA goes into great detail about after studying the issue for many years. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Jan 21 2005, 02:47 PM'] CMA goes into great detail about after studying the issue for many years. God Bless, ironmonk [/quote] Good call. I like the research. I am still hesitant to say one way or the other(i don't like to tell God what he did unless he told first) but this makes a strong case for it being a learned response and i am not even finished with it yet. Though it is strange because it could be unlearned in the same way. If someone was born homosexual they could become hetero which would makes studies very difficult to prove. My guess it that it is outside pressures more than genetics. prolly not genetic at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Homosexuals are born homosexual. The behavioral response theory is based on outdated research. The CMA is neither Catholic nor medical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 where do you come up with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 [quote name='jezic' date='Jan 21 2005, 04:56 PM'] Good call. I like the research. I am still hesitant to say one way or the other(i don't like to tell God what he did unless he told first) but this makes a strong case for it being a learned response and i am not even finished with it yet. Though it is strange because it could be unlearned in the same way. If someone was born homosexual they could become hetero which would makes studies very difficult to prove. My guess it that it is outside pressures more than genetics. prolly not genetic at all. [/quote] That's why the Church calls it a disorder. Disorders are learned. Think about it... If you like red heads, blonds, or brunettes... it's all something you learn. The guy who started the whole ssa (same sex attraction) being genetic based his theory of an enlarge hypothalmus (sp?) on 12 dead people and a few of those where [i]thought [/i]to have the ssa disorder because a couple died from AIDS. This doctor had the ssa disorder. This was not a scientific study at all. There are those that want people to believe it's genetic so that they can say it's not their fault. It may not be their fault even though it's not genetic. It is something learned, something learned can be unlearned. Everything we see and hear growing up programs us. We can be unprogrammed... it just takes time and effort. People today want to be handed things and take responsibility for their actions. My theory why it seems like people with ssa are coming out of the woodwork is because of things like MTV's real world... Revenge of the Nerds... etc... Hollywood trying to make ssa commonplace and accepted as ok, just as they did with pre-marital sex. Censorship is needed. Censorship is good when morals are concerned. Censorship can be bad when criticism of governments are concerned, provided that those doing the speaking are telling the truth and not the typical democrat lies about republicans. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Jan 21 2005, 03:12 PM'] That's why the Church calls it a disorder. Disorders are learned. Think about it... If you like red heads, blonds, or brunettes... it's all something you learn. The guy who started the whole ssa (same sex attraction) being genetic based his theory of an enlarge hypothalmus (sp?) on 12 dead people and a few of those where [i]thought [/i]to have the ssa disorder because a couple died from AIDS. This doctor had the ssa disorder. This was not a scientific study at all. There are those that want people to believe it's genetic so that they can say it's not their fault. It may not be their fault even though it's not genetic. It is something learned, something learned can be unlearned. Everything we see and hear growing up programs us. We can be unprogrammed... it just takes time and effort. People today want to be handed things and take responsibility for their actions. My theory why it seems like people with ssa are coming out of the woodwork is because of things like MTV's real world... Revenge of the Nerds... etc... Hollywood trying to make ssa commonplace and accepted as ok, just as they did with pre-marital sex. Censorship is needed. Censorship is good when morals are concerned. Censorship can be bad when criticism of governments are concerned, provided that those doing the speaking are telling the truth and not the typical democrat lies about republicans. God Bless, ironmonk [/quote] See that's just it. It cannot be unlearned. The christian programs that attempt to de-program homosexuals have an incredibly dismal success rate. It just doesn't happen and when it does the "cured" homosexuals usually revert back to their original ways. Two of the founders of one of these protestant groups eventually left the group and became homosexual partners. Now, I'm not saying that homosexual behavior is inevitable. However, the SSA certainly isn't learned. If it were learned then there would be overarching themes connecting the experiences of those suffering from SSA. This simply doesn't exist. Homosexuals come from every socio-economic background and every walk of life. It doesn't have to be genetic in order to be nascent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 (edited) There are indeed overarching themes in the early lives of homosexuals that are quite well-documented. These include such things as weak or absent fathers, lack of normal bonding experiences with the same sex in childhood, sexual abuse, and a number of other things. There is a wealth of literature and research on this topic, and does not just come from the website Max provided. The psychological roots of "SSA" go very deep in the psyche, and is not easily changed, but there are successful cases of poeple changing their orientation (some have even said so on this site). We do people with this disorder a disservice by telling them homosexuals are "born that way" and cannot ever change. Edited January 21, 2005 by Socrates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 (edited) [quote name='spathariossa' date='Jan 21 2005, 05:16 PM'] See that's just it. It cannot be unlearned. The christian programs that attempt to de-program homosexuals have an incredibly dismal success rate. It just doesn't happen and when it does the "cured" homosexuals usually revert back to their original ways. Two of the founders of one of these protestant groups eventually left the group and became homosexual partners. Now, I'm not saying that homosexual behavior is inevitable. However, the SSA certainly isn't learned. If it were learned then there would be overarching themes connecting the experiences of those suffering from SSA. This simply doesn't exist. Homosexuals come from every socio-economic background and every walk of life. It doesn't have to be genetic in order to be nascent. [/quote] Sorry, but you are mistaken. Anything can be unlearned... the first step in unlearning is the desire for correction. Without the desire for correction, all efforts will be futile. Also, reliance on God... With God all things are possible, and if someone does not believe that then they have very little faith. Please read the above article. God Bless, ironmonk Edited January 21, 2005 by ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 See i think part of the problem there is that the people wanted them to change. THat really isn't fair to do to someone. Gay people are people. THat doesn't change when they are gay. My premise is that they need to live Godly lives and then who cares if they are gay or not because they aren't going to go out and do stupid things with every guy they find. They wouldn't do that at all. You don't have to fix the disorder. There might not be one. Just fix thier attitude about stuff like sex. No i am not picking on gay people. i would do the same thing to straight ones as well. We are [u][b]all[/b][/u] called to live a life of giving of ourselves and sacrificing for others and following God's commands. I don't think he ever commanded people not to be gay. He just said live a life that is chaste and virtuous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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