Guest Aluigi Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 (edited) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife; nor his house, nor his field, nor his man-servant, nor his maid-servant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is his. Thou shalt not steal Thou shalt not murder I put an m instead of a t on purpose. One can be a good capitalist or a bad capitalist. Capitalism however promotes indifference and thus it is the sin of Capitalism. In capitalism, very few people can own their own means of production. They sell their time and selves into slavery to the corporation. It is a sin against the dignity of the human person. <discuss, more later> Edited January 21, 2005 by Aluigi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 to that. Any system that allows people to slave away for minimum wage while pencil pushers make millions of dollars, and then refuses to allow those people to form unions, is totally whack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Capitalism is rather excessive, since it is, after all, focused on capital. Can't have two masters you know. I think the only think that really knocks me off my rocker is the greed that captialism breeds. Adam Smith knew what he was talking about when he wrote [i]Wealth of Nations[/i] He knew that capitalism would work because of people's greed. Sadly, that means the system breeds greed. Go Mercantilism!!!... I think... it's the only system of trade in which no one gets too rich except the government... God bless, Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 I think mercantilism is ridiculous. It makes people dependent, and thus removes freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Dependent on what. Tariff people to death, no one gets rich. God bless, Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 I think the idea of a government getting all the money is silly. In the past, mercantilist economic systems resulted in extremely poor people and extremely rich - and useless - governments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Virtue comes from the heart. Greed and the like cannot be changed by a government redistributing people's property. Socialism is not the answer. It merely puts the power in the hands of government pencil pushers and away from those who have earned it. Virtue and morality need to be promoted. This is the job of each of us and of the Church. Excessive government control of property does not do the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 (edited) But poor people are more humble, qand rich governements, when not run by idiots are more ebeneficiqal to people than ones that arne't so rich. But yues, it does make some serious ruler problems.... God bless, Mikey P.S. Socartes there is A socialism thread... Edited January 21, 2005 by MichaelFilo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 [quote name='crusader1234' date='Jan 20 2005, 10:57 PM'] I think the idea of a government getting all the money is silly. In the past, mercantilist economic systems resulted in extremely poor people and extremely rich - and useless - governments. [/quote] Ditto that! Wow! Who woulda thunk it! Crusader and I actually agree on something economic/political related! It must be a sign of the end times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Jan 20 2005, 11:01 PM'] Virtue comes from the heart. Greed and the like cannot be changed by a government redistributing people's property. Socialism is not the answer. It merely puts the power in the hands of government pencil pushers and away from those who have earned it. Virtue and morality need to be promoted. This is the job of each of us and of the Church. Excessive government control of property does not do the job. [/quote] See, the thing about this thread is, its not talking about Socialism. Some people on this board seem to have this funny problem where they see something they don't like, and attack a non-related topic. If you want to argue against Socialism, theres actually another thread for that. If you want to argue against socialism in this thread, at least introduce it some sort of understandable context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 I don't like socialism or capatalism. Governments with more money, hence more power, have more ability to do good for the people than rich people with alot of money. And yes, environments can breed certaits. Capatilism breeds greed, socialism breeds lazieness (as no matter how much work you put in, you get X out... even if you triple your work). Neither system is good, but capatilism is better. However, I contened people who don't live in excess ar ehappier than those who do. God bless, Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 [quote name='MichaelFilo' date='Jan 20 2005, 11:02 PM'] But poor people are more humble, qand rich governements, when not run by idiots are more ebeneficiqal to people than ones that arne't so rich. But yues, it does make some serious ruler problems.... God bless, Mikey P.S. Socartes there is A socialism thread... [/quote] So the government should make its people poor in order to keep them humble? Since when are governments intrinsically more to be trusted with money than private citizens? Government officials making all the money sets the stage for run-away government corruption! I personally think the salaries of government officials ought to be cut wayyyy back, so that seeking office becomes a sacrifice for ones country, not a source of wealth and comfort like its become. I think the uncontrolled growth of government wealth and power is one of the great disasters of this country's government! Michaelfilo, your ideas are a prescription for tyranny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 [quote name='Aluigi' date='Jan 20 2005, 11:26 PM'] Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife; nor his house, nor his field, nor his man-servant, nor his maid-servant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is his. Thou shalt not steal Thou shalt not murder I put an m instead of a t on purpose. One can be a good capitalist or a bad capitalist. Capitalism however promotes indifference and thus it is the sin of Capitalism. In capitalism, very few people can own their own means of production. They sell their time and selves into slavery to the corporation. It is a sin against the dignity of the human person. <discuss, more later> [/quote] I have to disagree. In captialism, anyone with effort can own their own means of production. Many people own their own means of production. They can choose who to work for. They can work for themselves. They are not forced to do anything. It is not slavery to work. The Apostles taught that those who do not work should not eat. People are not forced to be Christian by the Church. They are given a choice. People are not forced to share what they have. People should be free to give, not forced to give. Any type of economy will have sin in it, because men sin. Certain well sounding styles of economies just simply do not work because men sin. Communism sounds great but it doesn't work. Socialism sounds great but doesn't work. Human nature is to sin. For high quality doctors and any type of business, there must be something to incent people to do a good job. If doctors had a cap on how much they could make, the quality of doctors would drop. Not too many people want to spend the kind of time in school without being receiving a just reward. In communism and socialism more people suffer (either by being forced to give, poor quality goods and services, someone in power taking advantage of the system, lack of freedoms, etc...) than in Captialism. Captialism works best because everyone is free to put forth effort and make their own means of production. People are free to give. We are to rely on God, not the economy... therefore we should not force people who are not Christian or who are Christian to give. God will provide for those who love Him. We are not to rely on the ways of the world. We are to rely on the very Word of God. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 I disagree with you, Ironmonk. So far, theres no evidence Socialism doesn't work. Scandanavia and Canada are all doing just fine (and to the dozen of you out there with a friend named Joe from Canada that says the healthcare system smells of elderberries, I'm Rich from Canada and you can look up United Nations ratings of our system and its doing just fine). Socialism doesn't breed laziness neccesarily... Anyways, back on topic: Capitalist societies are set up in a manner which prohibits growth and success for the vast majority of entrepreneurial endeavours. Restaurants are constantly closing, farmers are constantly having to sell out due to the high price of competition, etc. Wal-Mart, McDonalds, and other companies give their employees horrible wages, jobs with no dignity, and don't allow them to form unions. These workers own nothing, which is clearly outlined as being wrong in Rerum Novarum. Its not a simple issue of Capitalism being right of Socialism being right, there are other options. I hate the way people look at everything as black and white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 (edited) [quote name='MichaelFilo' date='Jan 20 2005, 11:05 PM'] I don't like socialism or capatalism. Governments with more money, hence more power, have more ability to do good for the people than rich people with alot of money. And yes, environments can breed certaits. Capatilism breeds greed, socialism breeds lazieness (as no matter how much work you put in, you get X out... even if you triple your work). Neither system is good, but capatilism is better. However, I contened people who don't live in excess ar ehappier than those who do. God bless, Mikey [/quote] Private philanthropists can and do help people with the money they've made. They can also create jobs and help the economy. Of course, some also abuse their wealth and power. But the truth is those in government are no more immune from greed and corruption than anyone else. If anything they are more prone to it. Being in government already gives one great power. When great power is combined with great wealth, you get a recipe for corruption. Edited January 21, 2005 by Socrates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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