james Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 (edited) [quote name='God Conquers' date='Jan 26 2005, 07:08 PM'] Preposterous statement! If the Truth is masked in lies you may never find it, nor recognize it for what it is. [/quote] That's more of a nihilistic sentiment than Catholic. Educating one's self in the infallibly defined doctrines of the church is the best way a person can circumvent deception. When that is coupled with God's grace, all is possible. Edited January 27, 2005 by james Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 I am a supernumerary in the Work. I just want you to all know, the Prelature is fully in union with Rome. Here is the jist, without getting too much into it....We are called to live a life of holiness, this is called a vocation. As we live this life, we ascribe to any one of several hundred spiritualities....Franciscan, Dominican, etc. Opus Dei is no different. We are called to live our lives through the sanctification of the Lord. Simple. However, while one is not necessarily called to be a Dominican, one is called to be a member of the work. It is a formal vocation, but one that all Catholics live, either formally (member of the Work) or informally (Catholic at large). Opus Dei is not a new vocation. It has been around since October 1928. It also is recognized by Rome and is very much in keeping with the teaching of the Church. Here is a link to Opus Dei. www.opusdei.org It can answer any questions you may have. Here is an informal link, but nevertheless can answer 98% of questions. [url="http://www.interbit.com/blogger/OpusDeiFAQ.html"]http://www.interbit.com/blogger/OpusDeiFAQ.html[/url] If you want to talk about this....you can send me a message....I am happy to discuss it in private or in public......God Bless. Cam42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 (edited) [color=red]Edited by Ice Princess: link not faithful to the Church[/color] Edited February 1, 2005 by IcePrincessKRS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinner Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 ODAN....... gimme a break. You'll be posting Jack Chick websites soon I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinner Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Regarding ODAN from Catholic Culture Website Ratings: Fidelity: CAUTION || Resources: Poor || Useability: Normal The Opus Dei Awareness Network, Inc. (ODAN) was founded in 1991 "to meet the growing demand for accurate information about Opus Dei and to provide education, outreach and support to people who have been adversely affected by Opus Dei." In reality, both the organization and its site are a misguided attempt to give credence to those who have a personal grievance against Opus Dei or one of its members. Many of the Prelature's best characteristics, such as its strong evangelization efforts, the total commitment of its members, and their sense of self-sacrifice and mortification, are taken out of context or completely misrepresented in an attempt to make Opus Dei look evil. The beauty of the great work of Opus Dei shows through, even in the writings of those who would eradicate it. In trying to malign the whole organization, this site is a prime example of Christ's assurance that those who truly follow Him will be persecuted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 James, The first webisite that you listed was from a guy who is in schism with the Church. His name is David Hobson. He was a friend of mine for several years. He has left the Church because he believes that Cardinal Siri was the rightfully elected Pope, in 1958. He also believes that Opus Dei is a Talumdic Sect.......it is a lie. He is not in keeping with Rome. He also got most of his criteria from ODAN. Suprising, no? Here is the thing. Opus Dei simply put calls man to live a holy life on a daily basis. The Spirituality of the Work is simple....put Jesus in front of you in everything you do. Make a quick aspiration through the day.....make a quick stop in front of the Blessed Sacrament, daily...pray for roughly 30 minutes a day.....and go to Mass daily. The rest is simple....do as much or as little as you are called to do, by the Work and by one's plan of life. It is not shocking and it is not over the top, it is simply being Catholic. It is what we are called to do.....the more aesthetic things are based on what one is called to be within the context of the Work. Cam42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Cam42' date='Feb 1 2005, 10:16 PM'] James, The first webisite that you listed was from ...David Hobson. He also believes that Opus Dei is a Talumdic Sect.......it is a lie. [/quote] (The following information about Opus Dei's rabbis, was taken directly from Opus Dei's Official Website on January 31, 2002) Rabbi Angel Kreiman: "Many of Josemaria Escriva's concepts call to mind the Talmudic tradition and reveal his profound knowledge of the Jewish world." Rabbi Angel Kreiman contended that Josemaria Escriva's teachings are strongly rooted in Talmudic traditions about work. Kreiman, who is the international vice president of the World Council of Synagogues, made his remarks in an address to a congress in Rome on Opus Dei's founder. The rabbi said that he was pleased about the interreligious prayer meeting for peace occurring January 24 in Assisi. Such meetings, he said, "help us to remember often that we all have the same common father." The Rabbi, who is a Cooperator of Opus Dei, said he wanted to demonstrate his special affection for the organization founded by Josemaria Escriva. "Opus Dei members helped me, right from the beginning of my (rabbinic) seminary studies, to persevere in my vocation," he [Kreiman] said, "and I have also seen them do it with other rabbis, for which I am deeply grateful." Edited February 8, 2005 by james Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 James, Cooperators in the Work are not necessarily Roman Catholic. Remember we are ALL called to a greater life of holiness. While one must be a Roman Catholic in good standing to be a formal member in the Work, a cooperator is one who ascribes that principle to his life. As it is, you are probably a cooperator and don't even know it. Cooperators are not formally part of Opus Dei. Cooperators are on the same search that we are all on. Sancification through daily life. If Opus Dei helped Rabbi, which I am sure that he did, it is because of the relationship that is explained in the Catechism about the relationship between Jews and Christians. So, it isn't so much about the fact that the Work "has rabbis" but rather that rabbis ascribe to the principle of Opus Dei and cooperate with the Work in a non-formal way. Let me make this clear.....COOPERATORS ARE [b]NOT[/b] OFFICIAL MEMBERS OF OPUS DEI. Cooperators simply espouse that which Opus Dei embodies. Catholics, Non-Catholics and Non-Christians can do this, therefore one does not need to be Catholic in order to be a cooperator. Hence the statement.... [quote]The Rabbi, who is a Cooperator of Opus Dei, said he wanted to demonstrate his special affection for the organization founded by Josemaria Escriva.[/quote] Cam42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 This is the part that interests me, however: (Taken directly from Opus Dei's Official Website on January 31, 2002) Rabbi Angel Kreiman: "Many of Josemaria Escriva's concepts call to mind the Talmudic tradition and reveal his profound knowledge of the Jewish world." Rabbi Angel Kreiman contended that Josemaria Escriva's teachings are strongly rooted in Talmudic traditions about work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 I must admit that I find that somewhat problematic. I would like to see an explanation from the otherside though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 I'm not a member and have just read about it online so my knowledge isn't from personal experience. I think perhaps Opus Dei isn't for meant everyone, but overall I think it sounds perfectly fine and has gotten a bad rap. I certainly don't doubt its orthodoxy, considering it was founded by a canonized saint. I especially appreciate the idea of incorporating a life of holiness in your work and everyday life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 James, [quote]Rabbi Angel Kreiman contended that Josemaria Escriva's teachings are strongly rooted in Talmudic traditions about work.[/quote] Do the Jews share in the life of the Father? In other words, are the Jews our brothers? Before you go on a rant about the Talmud, you need to understand the role that the Jews play in Salvation history. They are the "Chosen People." They are the first sons of the Father. While they do not share in the fulfillment of the Son, they do share in the life of the Father. Remember, we believe in the same God. They just don't accept the second and third parts of the Trinity. However, they anticipate them.....they still wait for the Messiah. Also, we as Christians are rooted in Judaism. We as Christians are to support and love our brethren, separated or not. That is what it is to be totally Christian. Ultimately, what this idea of the correlation to the Talmud and St. Josemaria is all about is the idea that there is racism somehow laced into the Work. You won't find it. Again, if Rabbi Kreiman is a Cooperator, great!!!! He is finding salvation through his daily work, is that not a Christian priniciple? Before you go on, I suggest that you head down to your local Catholic bookstore or go online and purchase this book, [u]Salvation is From the Jews: The Role of Jews in Salvation History[/u] by Roy Schoeman. He is a former Jew who has converted to Catholicism. Read this book, then we can talk. Cam42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Cam42' date='Feb 9 2005, 08:12 AM'] Before you go on, I suggest that you head down to your local Catholic bookstore or go online and purchase this book, [u]Salvation is From the Jews: The Role of Jews in Salvation History[/u] by Roy Schoeman. He is a former Jew who has converted to Catholicism. Read this book, then we can talk. Cam42 [/quote] Cam42, your post shows exactly why many people believe that Opus Dei has Talmudic underpinnings. As a Catholic, I am far more inclined to turn to the infallible dogma of the church as reference for matters regarding salvation than I would turn to the propaganda work of a recently converted layperson. I wouldn't recommend Schoeman's book to anyone seeking information on salvation given the readily available 2000 years of church teaching on the matter. To the recently converted Roy Schoeman I would recommend settling down and studying church dogma and tradition a bit more carefully before launching an effort to influence Catholic thinking. Of what authority does this "Catholic" rewrite 2000 years of church teaching on salvation? To Cam42 I would definitely recommend putting down Schoeman's book and paying heed to the ex cathedra pronouncement of pope Eugene IV: [quote] "The Most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews, heretics, and schismatics can never be partakers of eternal life, but that they are to go into the eternal fire ‘which was prepared for the devil and his angels,’ (Mt. 25:41) unless before death they are joined with Her; ... no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved unless they abide within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church." Pope Eugene IV, council of Florence[/quote] [quote name='Cam42']Also, we as Christians are rooted in Judaism. We as Christians are to support and love our brethren, separated or not.[/quote] If you here refer to rabbinic Judaism: a religion which teaches that our Lord is a sorcerer and idolater and that His Blessed Mother is a whore, you are not speaking for this Catholic with your inclusive "we." My faith is neither rooted in or supportive of this blasphemous religion. Edited February 9, 2005 by james Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 I am not an Opus Dei member, but know some who are. I have seem absolutely nothing convincing against Opus Dei on this thread. James, you have offered absolutely no evidence that Opus Dei is contrary to the Catholic Faith, merely a string of insinuations and slanders. This is making you look bad, rather than Opus Dei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Socrates' date='Feb 9 2005, 03:29 PM'] James, you have offered absolutely no evidence that Opus Dei is contrary to the Catholic Faith, merely a string of insinuations and slanders. [/quote] Once again, this was taken from [b]Opus Dei's official website[/b] on January 31, 2002 [quote]Rabbi Angel Kreiman: "Many of Josemaria Escriva's concepts call to mind the Talmudic tradition and reveal his profound knowledge of the Jewish world." Rabbi Angel Kreiman contended that Josemaria Escriva's teachings are strongly rooted in Talmudic traditions about work.[/quote] If you are under the impression that the Talmudic tradition is not contrary to Catholic faith I recommend that you read the Talmud yourself. Perhaps then you will understand why that book was condemned and ordered to be burned by popes in the past. Few people can believe the blasphemy that the Babylonian Talmud contains until they see it with their own eyes. Edited February 9, 2005 by james Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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