Nimrod

[ironmonk]

I'm venting. I posting this here because someone might want to debate it. Mind you that I attend a Catholic University.


Ok... So in my socialogy class we were talking about culture, differences between, etc... We were asked to discuss comparisions and are there any right and wrongs.

Here's the question:

[quote]Anthropology helps us to see that some behaviors may be condemned by one society but allowed and even celebrated by another. Are there any behaviors that you believe are "wrong" in any culture? How could someone argue that those behaviors might be acceptable?[/quote]


Someone posted:

[quote]I don't think the behaviors of different cultures should be considered non-acceptable, what gives us the right to judge what other cultures do, if that is the way things have always been. Every culture and sometimes different people have different ways of doing things, but even though we don't agree does not mean it is right or wrong, it is just the way they were brought up or taught. I am not saying it is an excuse to abuse or to manipulate anyone, we just have to realize that everyone is different in their own way and have different views and perspectives. [/quote]


To which I replied:

[quote]There is right and wrong. If we are talking about what is considered polite vs. inpolite, I totally agree with you. If we go into morals, then there is certainly right and wrong.

Right and wrong are determined by God. I know that some would argue the fact, but it is a fact that there is God and His Church is the Catholic Church. There is too much scientific evidence combined with miracles such as Fatima (Over 70,000 witnesses) and Saint Pio (thousands of witnesses) that prove what I just wrote - but that's another topic ;o)

Even if the culture doesn't believe in God and is doing something wrong, does not make it ok. Take for example, premarital sexual relations, if there was no premarital sex, there would not be STDs, included HIV. Because of their culture in some areas of Africa 1 in 4 people have HIV. In these cultures sex is a social activity, much like grabbing a cup of coffee with a friend, sex is looked at in the same light. This is very bad. [/quote]


Here is what my professor had to say about it:

[quote]Thanks very much for sharing your views.

I think it is vitally important to remember that even though we may hold very strong religious beliefs, other groups hold beliefs that are equally strong. The key to cultural relativism is to understand that not everyone has the same belief or value system, and that there is no one "right" system, no matter how strongly we may believe in our own.

I think it must also be said that there is no evidence that promiscuity is related to the spread of AIDS in Africa. There are many social and economic reasons for the epidemic, but I don't think "morality" is one of them.

Thanks again for sharing your views.[/quote]


I believe it would be suicide to my grade to argue with this guy. The reason for the nimrod title of this thread is because of his reasoning about AIDS being bad in Africa. "The social reason is because they sleep around Doctor - economy doesn't have anything to do with someone sleeping around" - ARRGHHH It's killing me I can't reply

I'm sure you all know how I like to stick to my guns until either I am shown that I'm wrong or the other sees that they are wrong... well, this is one where I have to bite my tongue and smash my fingers. It is so hard and stressful not to go off on this.

I can't wait until it's time to give a review on the guy.

I so want to go into the 2+2=4, and if there is a God, then there will be a right way, first debunk Fatima and St. Pio to give weight to what you just posted, yadda yadda yadda... Something along those lines.

But rule #1 in a class... Don't make a professor mad.

If people believe 2+2=6, they are going to be offended when I talk about 2+2=4. It's better that they know the truth and get a little mad, then to not know the truth and think they need 6 feet of bungee cord instead of 4 feet of bunge cord... their life could depend on it... if ya know what I mean

Ref. Bungee: [url="http://www.big-boys.com/articles/bungee.html"]http://www.big-boys.com/articles/bungee.html[/url]
(this is a little graphic and will make you whince)


God Bless,
ironmonk

[Socrates]

Relativism is the great evil of our day!
(Nothing is right or wrong, true or false. All things are relative.)

It is contrary to all reason and logic, yet is taboo in our modern culture to deny this nonsense, lest we be labeled "bigoted" and "politically incorrect."

[MichaelFilo]

I can agree. Nice site, the condom add was a nice touch. Probably should think about what yoru linking there.

God bless,
Mikey

[Iacobus]

Ironmonk, may I recommand the CDC site on AIDS. Last year if there was NO (as in Zero) sexual interaction between infected persons there would still have been upwards of 10,000 new infections in the US alone. HIV/AIDS is an STD, yes, but improperly named. Prior and during 1985, a signifcant precentage of new infections came from blood transfusions. Moreover, in Africa, there is still issues with blood safety and stopping reuse of sharps. Many hopsitals cannont afford to purchase new sharps and the disuse occurs when they no longer preice the skin.

Another example could be Ebola, which is not known to be airborne, infects many people in Africa a year, killed upwards of 85% within 8 days. Clearly, this illness is able to spread quite well. And, being that it is not airborne, but blood and bodly fluids born, the must be ways for it to be able to flare up. Same is rather possible with HIV/AIDS.

I would recommand before you risk making a fool of yourself by citing an STD as proof of the ill results of sin check the transmission types. Up until a few years ago it was possible to contract a number of STD's from a toliet seat.

And mind you as well, HIV does appear rapidly among monoghamius populations as well. It is introduced into the blood of one person, giving it to his spouse, who would than pass it on to any child. Simple epidemiology.

[crusader1234]

I agree with Jacob. Aids isn't a moral issue.

I agree with you though, in regards to the original issue, even if I don't like the way you tackled it. The idea that something isn't wrong because it has simply been practised for a long time is a little silly... ok a lot silly.

[spathariossa]

I disagree with Moral Relativism but rather than argue the I know the truth aspect of things I prefer to use the CS Lewis method. That is, I prefer to demonstrate that all cultures pretty much agree on a set moral code of conduct. This code of conduct resembles the 10 commandments (not exactly but a resemblance). Thou shalt not kill, steal, commit adultery, lie, etc. No culture on Earth believes that lying is generally good. They might say it is necessary or okay in some circumstances but nobody really believes that lying is good. Same goes for the rest that I listed. So yeah, that's how I go about it. Moral relativism doesn't exist because we all pretty much agree.

[cathqat]

[quote name='spathariossa' date='Jan 18 2005, 11:52 PM'] I prefer to demonstrate that all cultures pretty much agree on a set moral code of conduct.... Moral relativism doesn't exist because we all pretty much agree. [/quote]
It's true. Cultures have differed on specific sexual rules and taboos, for example, but all cultures have them. No traditional culture has considered it acceptable for people to just have sex with [i]any[/i]one. What culture lacks an incest taboo, for example? They only differ on degrees of consanguinity. And I can't think of any culture which truly values cowardice. People have differed, for example, on whether suicide was a cowardly or honorable way to die, but they never valued cowardice itself. And who values injustice as such? People may disagree about what is just, but no one really defends injustice as such. Specific norms, laws, and such vary, but there's a lot of agreement too.

[FilmGuy127]

im just curious about this cause ive seen you post this twice now but...

[quote]it is a fact that there is God and His Church is the Catholic Church. There is too much scientific evidence combined with miracles such as Fatima (Over 70,000 witnesses) and Saint Pio (thousands of witnesses) that prove what I just wrote[/quote]

like you said this might be a diffrent discussion all together... but

what scientific evidence do you have that proves this? and are thousands of "witnesses" proof of anything?

all im saying is that i dont think you can prove God nor once youve proven God can you prove that his church is catholic...

[Broccolifish]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Jan 18 2005, 11:16 PM'] I believe it would be suicide to my grade to argue with this guy. The reason for the nimrod title of this thread is because of his reasoning about AIDS being bad in Africa. "The social reason is because they sleep around Doctor - economy doesn't have anything to do with someone sleeping around" - ARRGHHH It's killing me I can't reply [/quote]
If you were serious about your position, you wouldn't worry about your grades. Either stick to your guns, or don't say you like to do so. Stand up and be a man. Be a martyr, or go play the "school" game, but don't claim to be a martyr when you're not one. You're biting your tongue because you value your grade more than you value the Truth.

[FilmGuy127]

Or acctually why dont you see if you can make an appointment with your prof to sit down and debate it with him outside of class... he cant dock your grade for that at all. Like he said, everbodys entitled to their own opinion right? not sure that would be what your looking for but it could be an option... a way to say what you want and still do good in your class right?

[Kilroy the Ninja]

I feel for you Ironmonk and I can assure you Don John does too. Just ask him if it's a good idea to call you theology professor a heretic days before final grades come out.... (At a Catholic university also mind you. Needless to say, his "A" papers in that class were for naught...)

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Jan 19 2005, 01:16 AM'] I'm venting. I posting this here because someone might want to debate it. Mind you that I attend a Catholic University.


Ok... So in my socialogy class we were talking about culture, differences between, etc... We were asked to discuss comparisions and are there any right and wrongs.

Here's the question:




Someone posted:




To which I replied:




Here is what my professor had to say about it:




I believe it would be suicide to my grade to argue with this guy. The reason for the nimrod title of this thread is because of his reasoning about AIDS being bad in Africa. "The social reason is because they sleep around Doctor - economy doesn't have anything to do with someone sleeping around" - ARRGHHH It's killing me I can't reply 

I'm sure you all know how I like to stick to my guns until either I am shown that I'm wrong or the other sees that they are wrong... well, this is one where I have to bite my tongue and smash my fingers. It is so hard and stressful not to go off on this.

I can't wait until it's time to give a review on the guy.

I so want to go into the 2+2=4, and if there is a God, then there will be a right way, first debunk Fatima and St. Pio to give weight to what you just posted, yadda yadda yadda...  Something along those lines.

But rule #1 in a class... Don't make a professor mad.

If people believe 2+2=6, they are going to be offended when I talk about 2+2=4. It's better that they know the truth and get a little mad, then to not know the truth and think they need 6 feet of bungee cord instead of 4 feet of bunge cord... their life could depend on it... if ya know what I mean

Ref. Bungee: [url="http://www.big-boys.com/articles/bungee.html"]http://www.big-boys.com/articles/bungee.html[/url]
(this is a little graphic and will make you whince)


God Bless,
ironmonk [/quote]
CS Lewis addressed this argument about various cultures in [i]Mere Christianity[/i]. Try using that one.

Edited January 19, 2005 by cmotherofpirl

[ironmonk]

I plan on addressing it, after I get my grade.

I have term papers and essays that are objective grades. Keeping professors happy has turned b's into a's... so it's not worth the risk of it going the opposite way. We have to pick our battles. I don't think anyone in the class will read his post or mine, mainly because it's buried in last weeks discussion. So, after I get my grade, I'll email him.

FilmGuy,
I'll answer your question soon, when I have time.


Iacobus,
There would be only be a fraction of the cases if they stopped sleeping around. It is mostly a moral issue.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[spathariossa]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Jan 19 2005, 08:30 AM'] CS Lewis addressed this argument about variuos cultures in [i]Mere Christianity[/i]. Try using that one. [/quote]
That's the one I use!

[toledo_jesus]

you have every right and duty to expound Catholic teachings at a Catholic University and I think your professor should be aware of this.
If the question he asks is supposed to utilize moral relativism, however, there is no sin in answering the question academically. It's an exercise in thinking like the enemy.

But the question he used so [i]totally [/i]allows for you to express Catholic teachings.

Edited January 19, 2005 by toledo_jesus