Do not ever mention global warming again!

[thessalonian]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Jan 18 2005, 08:12 AM'] Why people continue to live in that barron wasteland of a state, I'll never know... [/quote]
They must be nutz Completely mad. Insane. No hope.

hsm thessaonian von??

Don't turn your back on these people folks. Avoid them.

Edited January 18, 2005 by thessalonian

[homeschoolmom]

[Iacobus]

weunice and others, your logic is flawed. See if you can find it, if you can't I can show you.

[delta557]

hahahaha you guys dont get it do you? You say that global warming isn't true because it's getting cold, not hot? It's cold because of global warming!!! Ok, think about it: warming temperatures melt glaciers and ice at the poles. What happends to those glaciers? They become cold water, which in turn screws up the ocean currents which run on the basis of hot vs. cold water. So now we have the warm current that runs from the Atlantic towards England flooded with cold water. Catastrophe! That cold water is going to cool the air above it, making cold fronts...a lot of them, and for a very long time. Science, my friends, science! The movie [i]Day After Tomorrow[/i] is an excellent movie when it comes to being scientifically correct. That movie is an exaggerated example of what would happen, should the currents become cold. A little more severe than reality, but still close to the truth. Research it yourself if you don't believe me!

[delta557]

[quote name='Oik' date='Jan 18 2005, 12:34 PM'] Global warming and cooling is a natural occurance. The weather is sporadic and we still don't understand it's patterns (assuming there is one).

Our pollution doesn't help and it is sickening to see it. However, the greenies attribute more concern to these topics than the real issue at hand; sin.

Man's sinfulness has a more devestating(sp?) effect on nature than all other "green" issues combined. [/quote]
[b]This man speaks truth!!![/b]

[weunice]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Jan 18 2005, 05:25 PM'] weunice and others, your logic is flawed. See if you can find it, if you can't I can show you. [/quote]
Other than the fact that my example is [b]totally[/b] unrelated to warming and the other is a more plausible theory based on things we can observe (i.e. a greenhouse for example) it still doesn't minimize my point, which is simple ... I see no susbstantial evidence to lead me to conclude that a global warmup is [b]caused by[/b] man ... I have seen a LOT of circumstantial evidence. More tornadoes, bad hurricanes, warming trend etc ... Let me pick one of those: The tornadoes stat can be easily explained by the fact that they are followed by teams of storm chasers and as our knowledge about them increases ones that would have never been seen in the past are not only seen but filmed (FYI, Tornado Video classics V 1-3 are excellent) ... Same number - more recorded - number of tornadoes increases.

If that isn't my big flaw then please enlighten me on my failed logic and if you have proof that global warming is caused by man, by all means, fess up. ... keep in mind that I am for environmental responsiblity and I do believe that man MAY be somewhat responsible for climate change (I like the sin angle mentioned above) ... However, in order to convince me that man is CERTAINLY responsible for climate change, I need facts. Theorizing and speculation, even by the most enlightened scientific minds, does not a fact equal.

My point is simple. If you believe global warming is casued by man it would fall under the category of an educated opinion, not fact.

Edited January 19, 2005 by weunice

[zwergel88]

It's a fact.

man creates pollution--->pollution produces greenhouse effect--->earth gets warmer

[jezic]

that barren wasteland is my home or close to it. And no that really isn't that cold. Hehe

We were at -58 windchill that same day. it has been that cold here before.

Global warming does occur. The whole crisis right now could be attributed to the way people are acting. Our emtions/feelings (energy) has a strange effect on the environment. It is also very powerful. For all we know maybe the sun is heating up.

I do think it is occurring definitely yes. It is a huge problem but the world leaders could have fixed nearly all of it years ago and they are still fighting about it today.

[Paladin D]

I believe global warming is occuring, to what degree I don't know.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='jezic' date='Jan 19 2005, 06:56 PM'] that barren wasteland is my home or close to it. And no that really isn't that cold. Hehe [/quote]
hehe... thessalonian and I were joking around. We live in the barron wasteland too.

[Iacobus]

[quote name='weunice' date='Jan 18 2005, 07:16 AM'] It isn't that global warming isn't true. I think a good case can be made for that. However, the part that is not certain is that man or industry has anything to do with it. A single large volcanic eruption can pour more into the atmosphere than what mankind can do in 50 years. Ask those who suffered through the summer of 1816 what that was like. [/quote]
How often does a major eruption occur? Moreover, how do we know that this exceeds the level. Some, like you, like to cite a number, real or not, that eruptions count for 80% of all CO2 emissions (odd that BP Amoco says that 54.6% came from a group of 3 nations). Not only does this show you have a lack of understanding of Gobal Warming (CO2 is an issue, but is by far not the only compound creating issues) but a failure to understand math. The fact that eruptions cause more CO2 than man doesn't mean that the level cannot be exceeded. Say, eruptions produce 80 tons of CO2 a year, and man produces 20 tons and the "k" level for CO2 before climite change is 90 tons a year. The eruptions did not excceed that number but when mans addations are added the number is surpassed.

What happens is that the greenhouse gases (e.g. CO2, CH4, N2O) absorb infrared radation from the earth and the sun, chaning their wavelenghts and increasing them until the radation becomes heat.

Regression models based on indirect temp and CO2 measurements from 160,000 years ago until today show a direct collerataion between CO2 and temp increases. Burning of fossil fuels increase CO2 output rapidly. The CO2 data has increased expo. over the last few 100 to 1000 years.

Senice 1861 (the year form which atmosheric measurements of the troposphere started) the avg temp has risen 0.6 K. (roughly 1*F). Note, starting in 1861 coal emissions rapidly increased. Starting in 1946 was the most rapid change in temp, note 1946 saw a massive increase in car usage and other fuel burning ithems.

Enough or do you want more facts?

[weunice]

Thank you for the facts. First off, I have no stake in this debate as I do not side with either party or faction on this matter so to lump me into a crowd of "people like me" ...

It still remains that you are making intuitive leaps to reach your conclusion from a collection of facts. Your leaps are educated, but they are not infallible enough to certify the statement "man is causing this recent warmup" to the realm of fact.

The systems involved are too complex to say that A causes B, no matter the science involved. I only need to point at the relative accuracy of weather forecasts to show how much we do NOT know about systems on a global scale. Given the gap in knowledge how do you know FOR CERTAIN that something else is not more responsible for the increase in global temperatures than man. The answer is that you don't.

Like I said, strong evidence but it isn't fact. I admitted this much. I also think we need to do something about our possible impact on this equation, but even if we do, we are not certain that the something we are not knowledgable enough to see isn't going to keep the earth warming right on up.

[MagiDragon]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Jan 19 2005, 07:22 PM'] How often does a major eruption occur? Moreover, how do we know that this exceeds the level. Some, like you, like to cite a number, real or not, that eruptions count for 80% of all CO2 emissions (odd that BP Amoco says that 54.6% came from a group of 3 nations). Not only does this show you have a lack of understanding of Gobal Warming (CO2 is an issue, but is by far not the only compound creating issues) but a failure to understand math. The fact that eruptions cause more CO2 than man doesn't mean that the level cannot be exceeded. Say, eruptions produce 80 tons of CO2 a year, and man produces 20 tons and the "k" level for CO2 before climite change is 90 tons a year. The eruptions did not excceed that number but when mans addations are added the number is surpassed.

What happens is that the greenhouse gases (e.g. CO2, CH4, N2O) absorb infrared radation from the earth and the sun, chaning their wavelenghts and increasing them until the radation becomes heat.

Regression models based on indirect temp and CO2 measurements from 160,000 years ago until today show a direct collerataion between CO2 and temp increases. Burning of fossil fuels increase CO2 output rapidly. The CO2 data has increased expo. over the last few 100 to 1000 years.

Senice 1861 (the year form which atmosheric measurements of the troposphere started) the avg temp has risen 0.6 K. (roughly 1*F). Note, starting in 1861 coal emissions rapidly increased. Starting in 1946 was the most rapid change in temp, note 1946 saw a massive increase in car usage and other fuel burning ithems.

Enough or do you want more facts? [/quote]
citation please