Tink Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Jan 18 2005, 12:08 AM'] Okay, I think I've found the section under question. It says the procedure is allowable only under certain "extreme" conditions, an only when it is clearly necessary to cure the mental distress (probably to avoid greater evil such as danger of suicide.) It then warns that surgery usually makes the mental condtion worse. The article also says: "The key point is that the (transsexual) surgical operation is so superficial and external that it does not change the personality. If the person was male, he remains male. If she was female, she remains female," said the source. See, here is the problem. The surgery does not give one actual new genitals with reproductive function, but an artificial mutilation of flesh. Hyper, the difference is a man's penis (or a woman's vagina) is a gift from God. The surgery is an unnatural destruction of what God gave you. Spar., it seems you have a genuine physical condition, and I'm honestly not an expert on such things. Since you've said you have no sex drive, issues of chastity should not be a problem. Just serve the Lord the best you can and do not feel bad about being single or not being a religious. I am single, and am not a priest or religious. Worrying about such things will only create unnecesarry trouble for you. I'm sorry you have to deal with condition, and i wish you the best. I can probably seem like a mean old SOB at times, but I really want the best for you. I think you are a good-hearted person. God bless, Greg [/quote] Thank you. THIS is more along the lines of what I've been so poorly attempting to say. I think my meds have really destroyed my articulation tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 [quote name='Tink' date='Jan 18 2005, 12:11 AM'] Well, originally I did, but now I'm completely lost. Sorry. [/quote] but I must agree with the majority of Socrates' post in saying that if you are created to be a certain gender, any inclinations to be otherwise need not be acted upon. You can act like a female and be as feminine as you like, but to be compelled to deny the God-given gift of sexuality through the act of sex-reassignment surgery is devaluing your individuality and God's wisdom. Socrates said I'd always be a man dressing like a girl. You said you agree with him. This has nothing to do with sex. I'm celibate but that's not what this is about. This is about me not living as a boy, because living as a boy makes die inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Hyper, the difference is a man's penis (or a woman's vagina) is a gift from God. The surgery is an unnatural destruction of what God gave you. I'm not going to get into this, but I was BORN with Major physical anamalies. I didn't develope "naturally" at puberty. I had to be put on testosterone as teenager to cause the developement of male secondary sex characteristics. I could say other things. And having been off of T for a while now, and without estrogen replacement (which I intend to have), the changes in my physical self have not been at all atypical of the ones teenage girls go threw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 Oh and I should make a note here. The surgery creeps me out as much as the boy genitals do. I'm not sure what I'm going to do. On the one hand - gross. On the other hand - gross. What a conundrum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 [quote name='hyperdulia again' date='Jan 18 2005, 12:15 AM'] Hyper, the difference is a man's penis (or a woman's vagina) is a gift from God. The surgery is an unnatural destruction of what God gave you. I'm not going to get into this, but I was BORN with Major physical anamalies. I didn't develope "naturally" at puberty. I had to be put on testosterone as teenager to cause the developement of male secondary sex characteristics. I could say other things. And having been off of T for a while now, and without estrogen replacement (which I intend to have), the changes in my physical self have not been at all atypical of the ones teenage girls go threw. [/quote] Yeah. I didn't have male puberty either. I dunno why, but I never did. My parents never sought to have me go on T for the issue though - thank God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 (edited) Re: Grossness. well if that's the case, stay put and spend the money on something useful, like a MacDonald's franchise. lol Edited January 18, 2005 by hyperdulia again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 [quote name='hyperdulia again' date='Jan 18 2005, 12:19 AM'] well if that's the case, stay put and spend the money on something useful, like a MacDonald's franchise. lol [/quote] Yeah I know. It is $30,000 or so. But I'm certain I'd feel alot better with it than without. I just know that even without the surgery I won't kill myself as long as I can be myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 [quote name='spathariossa' date='Jan 18 2005, 12:18 AM'] Yeah. I didn't have male puberty either. I dunno why, but I never did. My parents never sought to have me go on T for the issue though - thank God. [/quote] The changes from testosterone weren't that bad. Facial hair. More muscle. But my underlying structure remained nubile. I'm starting to thnk the T is hy I had a sex-drive. 'Cause now. I kinda don't ever think about it. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tink Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 [quote]Socrates said I'd always be a man dressing like a girl. You said you agree with him.[/quote] ok. And I'm saying that if all this is as you say it is, you don't need a penis to make you a male, or a vagina to make you a female. [quote]See, here is the problem. The surgery does not give one actual new genitals with reproductive function, but an artificial mutilation of flesh.[/quote] What more is surgically created genitalia than skin? Why would you need a mass of cells to make you feel more comfortable in your femininity or masculinity? Human bodies are nothing, and sexual reassignment surgery does not change your gender, it simply makes one more content in their physical embodiment. I understand that I am completely ignorant in some respects, but I still don't follow the logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 [quote name='hyperdulia again' date='Jan 18 2005, 12:15 AM'] Hyper, the difference is a man's penis (or a woman's vagina) is a gift from God. The surgery is an unnatural destruction of what God gave you. I'm not going to get into this, but I was BORN with Major physical anamalies. I didn't develope "naturally" at puberty. I had to be put on testosterone as teenager to cause the developement of male secondary sex characteristics. I could say other things. And having been off of T for a while now, and without estrogen replacement (which I intend to have), the changes in my physical self have not been at all atypical of the ones teenage girls go threw. [/quote] Sorry, didn't know about your physical problems. I was a little confused. Earlier (on another post) I thought you said you were a gay man. Then somewhere else you siad you had two kids, then I was really confused. I don't know your gender or specific medical condition, and its really none of my business, so I'll shut up. Just please accept my apologies. I'll be sure to keep you in my prayers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 [quote name='hyperdulia again' date='Jan 18 2005, 12:22 AM'] The changes from testosterone weren't that bad. Facial hair. More muscle. But my underlying structure remained nubile. I'm starting to thnk the T is hy I had a sex-drive. 'Cause now. I kinda don't ever think about it. lol [/quote] Yeah. Everybody I know has the same reaction. Yay for no sex drive! And ummm...yeah I know what you mean. I got some hair (blech) but not much. And umm...muscles for sure. But that was it. No real changes at all. They are almost completely reversed now too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Re: surgery this true. I actually think srs (our culture being the way it is) is an actual necessity for preservaton of life ( a dear friend put it as the difference between rape and murder). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 [quote name='Tink' date='Jan 18 2005, 12:23 AM'] ok. And I'm saying that if all this is as you say it is, you don't need a penis to make you a male, or a vagina to make you a female. What more is surgically created genitalia than skin? Why would you need a mass of cells to make you feel more comfortable in your femininity or masculinity? Human bodies are nothing, and sexual reassignment surgery does not change your gender, it simply makes one more content in their physical embodiment. I understand that I am completely ignorant in some respects, but I still don't follow the logic. [/quote] I think the surgery is gross. This is about me being a girl not having weird surgical operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Jan 18 2005, 12:23 AM'] Sorry, didn't know about your physical problems. I was a little confused. Earlier (on another post) I thought you said you were a gay man. Then somewhere else you siad you had two kids, then I was really confused. I don't know your gender or specific medical condition, and its really none of my business, so I'll shut up. Just please accept my apologies. I'll be sure to keep you in my prayers. [/quote] It was easier (when I was alone here) to identify as a gay man. And besides, some of my bestfriends are gay men. Thank you for your prayers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 [quote name='hyperdulia again' date='Jan 18 2005, 12:24 AM'] Re: surgery this true. I actually think srs (our culture being the way it is) is an actual necessity for preservaton of life ( a dear friend put it as the difference between rape and murder). [/quote] Wow you are so right. So many trans people have died because they didn't have the right genitals. I didn't even really think about that. But yeah, difference between rape and brutal murder sums it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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