cathqat Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 [quote name='hyperdulia again' date='Jan 14 2005, 01:56 AM'] Flannery O'connor said it and I don't care who finds it offensive: Sometimes Catholics suffer more from the Church than for the Church. [/quote] I love Flannery. I made a pilgrimmage to her grave a few years ago, and am planning another trip soon. "When in Rome, do as you done in Milledgeville." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 [quote name='spathariossa' date='Jan 14 2005, 12:21 PM'] It isn't a question of arrogance, and I don't think it is really a question of age. To be perfectly honest, I don't think you have any clue what you're talking about. I know everyone has their own struggles, but I seriously doubt you've ever dealt with anything even approaching this magnitude. So what if I'm upset about not being considered mentally stable enough to join a religious order? You wouldn't understand how that feels. In fact, if you want to speak of arrogance, the height of arrogance is for somebody like you to even attempt to tell someone like me that I'm being arrogant for being sick and tired of not having any choices in my life. [/quote] You don't know me either, and you make assumptions as well. When the pot called the kettle black, it didn't meant the kettle took offense. You have no clue at the choices I've faced or am facing now. I will say that due to my advantage in years and experience, I have a broader perspective. You always have 'choices', even if they aren't the choices YOU want. If you believe in the supremacy of God, don't you think that you must consider what choice HE has made available to you? Does a Father give a stone instead of a loaf of bread? Being mature is realizing that you don't have much choice about the immediate circumstances of your life, but that you do have limited choices about how to react to them. Being a Christian is also realizing that 'Someone Else' is also providing choices that you may not want. Jonah had choices, even if he was sick and tired of them. I'm sure Peter would have much preferred to have lived a long life with his friend, Jesus, and have them both die of old age. Jesus clearly preferred to have not been crucified, had free choice, but chose the sacrifice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 1) Trusting in God and trusting in the Church are two different things No they are not. Christ set the church on this earth to lead mankind. It is no different following the Church today than it was following Moses accross the desert. Those who chose not to follow Moses, thereby following God, perished in the desert. Our desert is the desert of life. The trials of our desert are as trying as those of the Israelites. We must follow his Church or we will perish. 2) Adultery is clearly wrong. Where is it written that it is wrong for people like me to join religious orders? I'm not debating the marriage thing - that issue is so complicated nobody could sort it out. Religous orders are not a right. Are you saying that you attempted ot enter an order and they rejected you because of your attractions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 [quote name='thessalonian' date='Jan 14 2005, 07:24 PM'] Religous orders are not a right. Are you saying that you attempted ot enter an order and they rejected you because of your attractions. [/quote] that's a great point. There are so many impediments to joining religious orders or the priesthood. There are plenty of impediments to marriage too. Most of the things I want to do with my life are basically impossible (unless I win the lottery, but I don't even play the lottery). I'm not trying to invalidate anything anyone has said or belittle anyone, I just think its a good point that its not really that uncommon for people to be excluded from vocations because of things they cannot control. I know a guy who would love to be a priest but he is partially crippled. I don't think he could get married either because I assume he has functional problems south of the border. Anyway.. I'm sure I've already made the point twice so I'll shut up now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cathurian Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 I've got it too, ya'll. I asked your opinion about it and showed the article, and you guys told me no, it was wrong, and I couldn't do it. I'm not mad, and I'm not holding a grudge, I'm just wondering why the discrepancy here. Can't believe there's three of us on phatmass with it. Crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 [quote name='Cathurian' date='Jan 14 2005, 07:51 PM'] I've got it too, ya'll. I asked your opinion about it and showed the article, and you guys told me no, it was wrong, and I couldn't do it. I'm not mad, and I'm not holding a grudge, I'm just wondering why the discrepancy here. Can't believe there's three of us on phatmass with it. Crazy. [/quote] I don't remember that.. maybe it was when I wasn't posting.. Anyway, what are the chances of that! Pretty soon dUSt will have to make a trans-gender phorum. Actually maybe its Providence. I imagine its hard to meet other people struggling with that sort of thing, especially who are serious about Catholicism. Praise God! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cathurian Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 (edited) Me and Spathariossa go a long way back. I won't say anything more than that unless she wants to. But, I didn't know hyperdulia I'm very glad to meet somebody else serious about Catholicism with this. Makes things much easier you know. Edited January 15, 2005 by Cathurian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 aww sweet. That's why I love phatmass. I myself was a solitary and estranged butt-head until I came here, now I have other catholic nerds to relate to such as phatcatholic and brother adam. j/k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 the only thing i might suggest also, if you really want to be in a religious order start a new one. If the old ones are going to accept you then trust in God and go that extra step. I can't see how the church can condemn something like this though. it is not even giving people a chance. It is sad we are divided on earth like this by the work on the devil. We should pray for an end to this. God your will here be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted January 15, 2005 Author Share Posted January 15, 2005 [quote name='thessalonian' date='Jan 14 2005, 07:24 PM'] 1) Trusting in God and trusting in the Church are two different things No they are not. Christ set the church on this earth to lead mankind. It is no different following the Church today than it was following Moses accross the desert. Those who chose not to follow Moses, thereby following God, perished in the desert. Our desert is the desert of life. The trials of our desert are as trying as those of the Israelites. We must follow his Church or we will perish. 2) Adultery is clearly wrong. Where is it written that it is wrong for people like me to join religious orders? I'm not debating the marriage thing - that issue is so complicated nobody could sort it out. Religous orders are not a right. Are you saying that you attempted ot enter an order and they rejected you because of your attractions. [/quote] Ok for the LAST time. I am NOT a homosexual. I don't have ANY sexual attractions and I have ZERO sex drive. This has NOTHING to do with attractions. Read the damned document that was posted. It isn't about homosexuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted January 15, 2005 Author Share Posted January 15, 2005 [quote name='Cathurian' date='Jan 14 2005, 07:59 PM'] Me and Spathariossa go a long way back. I won't say anything more than that unless she wants to. But, I didn't know hyperdulia I'm very glad to meet somebody else serious about Catholicism with this. Makes things much easier you know. [/quote] You can say whatever you want, Dante Brave of you to tell everyone though. :applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 The following article is from the Vatican website and touches on various sexual issues: [url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/laity/Colonia2005/rc_pc_laity_doc_20030805_p-anatrella-gmg_en.html"]World Youth Day: From Toronto to Cologne[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted January 15, 2005 Author Share Posted January 15, 2005 That was interesting Apotheoun. Not particularly pertinent to the specific topic at hand but it is nice to see how the Vatican views youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 [quote name='spathariossa' date='Jan 15 2005, 05:29 AM'] Ok for the LAST time. I am NOT a homosexual. I don't have ANY sexual attractions and I have ZERO sex drive. This has NOTHING to do with attractions. Read the damned document that was posted. It isn't about homosexuality. [/quote] I understand. My apology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myduwigd Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 [quote name='spathariossa' date='Jan 14 2005, 02:19 PM'] Yeah but the Church doesn't call you mentally unstable and \ [/quote] i thought that the DSM IV called GID a mental illness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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