Valid Baptism

[Brother Adam]

I have a question concerning the validity of Protestant baptism.

If a Protestant is baptized by immersion using the correct formula, but intends that the baptism does not wash away any sins, but only is an outward sign of faith, is that baptism valid?

Is there any Church documents stating the validity or non-validity of such a baptism?

I don't want to know what the Code of Canon Law says about conditional baptisms. I want to know, in this case, if the baptism is valid.

From what I understand Reformed Baptisms are invalid, because the baptism is nor preformed for the forgiviness of sins, but only as an outward sign of faith - an ordinance not a sacrament. There is only symbolism in these baptisms, not reality of grace.

[Brother Adam]

hmmm....

[Brother Adam]

hmmm....

[Krush2k2]

[url="http://www.dioceseoflincoln.org/purple/denominations/deno9.htm"]http://www.dioceseoflincoln.org/purple/den...tions/deno9.htm[/url]

[url="http://www.ctlibrary.com/ct/1999/aug9/9t919b.html"]http://www.ctlibrary.com/ct/1999/aug9/9t919b.html[/url]


Perhaps these links will help you find a clear answer.

God Bless

Edited January 13, 2005 by Krush2k2

[Tony]

the way I understand it, the only qualification is if its done " In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" Holy Ghost might work.. stuff like "Creator" and what not doesnt validate the baptism

[Scofizzle]

well when they bring adults into the church they dont re-baptize them. So I would imagine that the stain of original sin is washed away. The baptism is outside of the church so it is clearly not a valid sacrament but I think the baptism is still valid.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Krush2k2' date='Jan 13 2005, 06:42 PM'] [url="http://www.dioceseoflincoln.org/purple/denominations/deno9.htm"]http://www.dioceseoflincoln.org/purple/den...tions/deno9.htm[/url]

[url="http://www.ctlibrary.com/ct/1999/aug9/9t919b.html"]http://www.ctlibrary.com/ct/1999/aug9/9t919b.html[/url]

[url="http://www.sspx.org/Catholic_FAQs/catholic_faqs__sacramental.htm"]http://www.sspx.org/Catholic_FAQs/catholic...sacramental.htm[/url]

Perhaps these links will help you find a clear answer.

God Bless [/quote]
You posted a link from sspx.org. lol.

[Krush2k2]

lol WHERE?

I just typed in Validity of Protestant Baptism in google and didnt pay much attention to the sources haha my bad

[Tony]

when I was smaller I thought the only church that BAPTISed were BAPTISts

[thessalonian]

"The Council of Trent, confirming this tradition, defined that Baptism administered by heretics in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, with the intention of doing what the Catholic Church does is true Baptism (cf. DH 1617)."


Council of Trent
CANON IV.-If any one saith, that the baptism which is even given by heretics in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, with the intention of doing what the Church doth, is not true baptism; let him be anathema.

Edited January 13, 2005 by thessalonian

[thessalonian]

I had questions in my mind about the topic of this thread as well until I paritcipated in a discussion on catholicconvert.com a few weeks ago.

This is from the Council of Florence. It is interesting with regard to this thread.

" But in case of necessity not only a priest or a deacon, but even a lay man or a woman, even a pagan and a heretic, can baptize provided he or she uses the form of the church and intends to do what the church does. The effect of this sacrament is the remission of all original and actual guilt, also of all penalty that is owed for that guilt. Hence no satisfaction for past sins is to be imposed on the baptized, but those who die before they incur any guilt go straight to the kingdom of heaven and the vision of God. :

[url="http://www.piar.hu/councils/ecum17.htm"]http://www.piar.hu/councils/ecum17.htm[/url]

Now a pagan cannot know all the theological ins and outs of baptism. They can only know that the one being baptized wishes to be baptized as the Church intends and therefore intend to do so.

Edited January 13, 2005 by thessalonian

[XIX]

Yeah, you could even baptize somebody with light coffee (>50% water) if I understand this correctly.

So the answer to Bro Adam's question seems to be that it wouldn't be a valid baptism? Because they don't have the intention of "doing what the Church does," which is to wash away original sin.

[Dreamweaver]

So, one could baptise with anything substance, provided that the majority of it is water? What about Moutain Dew?

Sorry to go off topic, but today, one of my coworkers was talking about a childhood incident where she "baptized" one of her cats in her kiddie pool. She also had a friend that "baptised" a pet hermit crab.

[XIX]

Don't take my word for it regarding the 50.000000000000000000000001% water stipulation. I heard it ONCE from a very orthodox friend, a couple of months back.

[thessalonian]

[quote name='XIX' date='Jan 13 2005, 07:31 PM'] Yeah, you could even baptize somebody with light coffee (>50% water) if I understand this correctly.

So the answer to Bro Adam's question seems to be that it wouldn't be a valid baptism? Because they don't have the intention of "doing what the Church does," which is to wash away original sin. [/quote]
No, that is incorrect. They do not have to know what the Church or Christ intends. They only have to intend what the Church or Christ intends. I have not ever had heard of a Baptist baptism rejected even though it is just an ordinance to them. It does not forgive sins to them or wash away sin. Yet I have never had a priest say "oh baptist, gotta rebaptize.".