frozencell Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 [quote name='cathqat' date='Jan 17 2005, 02:38 PM'] If he is claiming that humans are descended from more than two first parents, like polygenists claim, you should know that the Church has condemned polygeny. Catholics must believe that we humans are all descended from the same two parents (whom we usually call Adam and Eve). [/quote] Polygenesis \Pol`y*gen"e*sis\ (-j[e^]n"[-e]*s[i^]s), Polygeny\Po*lyg"e*ny\ (p[-o]*l[i^]j"[-e]*n[y^]), n. [Poly- + genesis, or root of Gr. gi`gnesqai to be born.] (Biol.) The theory that living organisms originate in cells or embryos of different kinds, instead of coming from a single cell. Maybe I'm just not clear on this, but it seems that is not what polygeny is at all. A newly conceived baby still comes from one cell via sperm and egg. Could you please elaborate on your view please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozencell Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 [quote name='JeffCR07' date='Jan 17 2005, 05:36 PM'] It is a [i]de fide[/i] statement of faith that god created two distinct persons, one male and one female, and that all of humanity comes from those two individuals. To assert that we come from more than those two parents, even if one asserts that God created those other "parents" as well, is heresy. - Your Brother in Christ, Jeff [/quote] Why is that heresy? And what is "de fide"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 We are not the result of multiple groups of people, someone along the line God gave Adam and Eve souls to become our parents of all of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JeffCR07 Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 [quote]Maybe I'm just not clear on this, but it seems that is not what polygeny is at all. A newly conceived baby still comes from one cell via sperm and egg. Could you please elaborate on your view please?[/quote] frozencell, the term "polygenist" is the name for a person who holds the belief that humans are derived not from one original human male and one original human female, typically referred to as "First Parents," but rather that we are derived from a diverse number of men and women who all simultaneously evolved/were created. When speaking of polygenists, as cathqat was, the term "polygeny" refers to that concept of diverse, rather than universal, parentage. [quote]Why is that heresy? And what is "de fide"?[/quote] It is a heresy because the Church has infallibly declared to the contrary. "De Fide" simply means "of Faith" and a [i]de fide[/i] statement is a definitive statement on a matter of faith and morals made by a Council of the Church. [i]De Fide[/i] statements are infallable teachings, protected by the Holy Spirit. As Catholics, we must believe them and, as such, any statement to the contrary is necessarily heretical. - Your Brother In Christ, Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathqat Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 [quote name='frozencell' date='Jan 17 2005, 08:00 PM'] Polygenesis \Pol`y*gen"e*sis\ (-j[e^]n"[-e]*s[i^]s), Polygeny\Po*lyg"e*ny\ (p[-o]*l[i^]j"[-e]*n[y^]), n. [Poly- + genesis, or root of Gr. gi`gnesqai to be born.] (Biol.) The theory that living organisms originate in cells or embryos of different kinds, instead of coming from a single cell. Maybe I'm just not clear on this, but it seems that is not what polygeny is at all. A newly conceived baby still comes from one cell via sperm and egg. Could you please elaborate on your view please? [/quote] The "polygeny" to which I refer is not the same thing as polygenesis. "When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely [i]polygenism[/i], the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For [i]the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains that either after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parent of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents[/i]." Pope Pius XII, [i]Humani Generis[/i] 37. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Interesting. Especially in light of discussions of evidence of mitochondrial Eve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathqat Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 [quote name='spathariossa' date='Jan 17 2005, 09:48 PM'] Interesting. Especially in light of discussions of evidence of mitochondrial Eve. [/quote] Yes, it is interesting. Though mitochondrial "Eve" is not supposed to have lived at the same time as y-chromosomal "Adam." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 [quote name='cathqat' date='Jan 17 2005, 09:56 PM'] Yes, it is interesting. Though mitochondrial "Eve" is not supposed to have lived at the same time as y-chromosomal "Adam." [/quote] Oh. Well, science doesn't know everything now does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathqat Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 [quote name='spathariossa' date='Jan 17 2005, 10:00 PM'] Oh. Well, science doesn't know everything now does it? [/quote] *chuckle* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 [quote name='cathqat' date='Jan 17 2005, 05:02 PM'] Abraham Lincoln bought the farm. [/quote] Deo gratias! Requiescat in Pace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathqat Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 [quote name='popestpiusx' date='Jan 18 2005, 01:06 AM'] Deo gratias! Requiescat in Pace! [/quote] *LOL* Not a Lincoln fan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bookwyrm Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Sorry I didn't read this whole thread, but I think that the main arguments of most creationists is based on a misunderstanding of the theory of evolution. It is very complex and difficult to summarize the intricate details that are so important. For example, the organic compounds formed in Miller and Urey's famous experiment did not spontaneously form living cells. The modern atmosphere is oxidizing, i.e., it tends to break down complex compounds, while the ancient atmosphere was reducing due to volcanic activity, etc. and tended to favor the formation of complex monomers and the synthesis of polymers from those monomers. These polymers formed protobionts, aggregates of organic molecules that were not alive per se, but had some of the characteristics of life. These protobionts developed a means of heredity using RNA, which is autocatalytic and doesn't require complex proteins to catalyze its reproduction. Anyway, there's a lot more where that came from, but if you read this much, then congrats. I'll shut up now. I think that evolution is possible, but the idea of it happening by pure chance is absurd. The fact that it is improbable points to a Creator, but the scientific evidence we have points to evolution as the means He employed for creation. My $0.02. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 (edited) [quote name='cathqat' date='Jan 18 2005, 07:41 PM'] *LOL* Not a Lincoln fan? [/quote] Not so much. I have a serious probem with J.W. Booth for turning that worthless ([b]censored[/b]) into a martyr. By the way, I'll try to reply to your post on the use of "historic and literal" later. Edited January 19, 2005 by popestpiusx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 New evolution thread: [url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=27890&st=0entry497713"]http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showt...=0entry497713[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now