US Soldiers Commits Suicide to Avoid Going Back

[Socrates]

[quote name='hyperdulia again' date='Jan 13 2005, 03:04 AM'] I don't think the US is evil cause I'm a "conservative." I think Conservatives (the Pope does not err EVER) and Liberals (the Church is purely human) are heretics. I just try to be an Orthodox Catholic, as such I believe this country is evil and find it very sad when the young are corrupted into supporting it. [/quote]
America - Love it or leave it!

[bookwyrm]

I would respectfully like to request that everyone step back from this thread for a moment and take a deep breath.

































Now, can we conduct a civilized debate without attacking each other?
Thanks.

Edited January 14, 2005 by bookwyrm

[curtins]

ok like totus tuus said:

This is a tragady that this soldier commited suicide and all- my prayers go out to him and his family and for all our soldiers. BUT- some libral had to TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS TRAGADY AND TURN IT INTO AN ATTACK ON OUR PRESIDENT GEORGE WALKER BUSH!!!! THAT REALLY TICKS ME OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU CHEAP SCUM LIBRALS- YOU USE THE DEAD TO FURTHER YOUR POLITICAL AGENDA!!!!!!!!!! YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO TACTICS LIKE THAT BECAUSE YOU KNOW THAT YOUR PARTY IS GOING SO LEFT WING THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DONT LIKE IT. And they showed that they dont like it when their voices were heard on NOVEMBER 2- but of course you question the elections as well. AND DO NOT CALL MY COUNTRY'S MILITARY A BUNCH OF TERRORISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!! I COULD JUST PUNCH YOU RIGHT IN THE FACE RIGHT NOW- YOUR LUCKY IM NOT THERE BECAUSE I WOULD- WHO KILLED 3000 ON 911?????? WAS IT OUR MILITARY??? WAS IT BUSH????? OF COURSE THE LIBRALS WANT TO SAY THAT- But no im sorry it was THE TERRORISTS- OSAMA BIN LADIN AND AL QUADA AND ALL THOSE MUSLIM FANATICAL MURDERERS. THEY are the savages- yet you attack your own country as being the terrorist. You act as if Sadam was a rightous man- yeah thats why he killed 200000 OF HIS OWN PEOPLE!!!!!!!! Thats why he had ties to al quaeda- and had the means and the want to develope wmds Thats why his sons took women off the street and raped and killed them- his regime implemented a reign of fear and terror upon the country where no one could ssay what they want- no one could have the RIGHTS THAT YOU TAKE FOR GRANTED EVERY STINKIN DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And then Bush is handed THREE separate inteligence reports from THREE different nations (us uk and russia) ALL SAYING THAT SADAM HAS WMDS. now after just witnessing 3000 people dead on your own soil- what would YOU do??? wait for the terrorist to get a hold of a nuke???? i know thats what the libs would do- but BUSH TOOK THE FIGHT TO THE ENEMY AND NOW SADAM IS NO LONGER A THREAT TO THE WORLD. Yes the situation in Iraq is rough- yes our soldiers are dying BUT ITS WAR- and WE WILL WIPE OUT THESE TERRORIST SCUMS- BUT HOW DARE YOU CALL MY MILITARY A BUNCH OF TERRORISTS- YOU ARE UN INFORMED, IGNORANT, AND NIEAVE- THE TERRORISTS ARE THE ONES SETTING OFF ROAD AND CAR BOMBS- KILLING US SOLDIERS AND INOCENT IRAQIS- YET YOU CRITICIZE OUR YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN WHO ARE BRAVLY SERVING THEIR COUNTRY SO THAT YOU MAY HAVE YOUR FREEDOM- LETS SEE YOU GO OVER THERE AND RISK YOUR LIFE FOR THIS GREAT NATION- THEN COME BACK AND TELL ME THEY ARE A BUNCH OF TERRORIST-
The USA is not an evil country
the us government is not evil
there ARE evil things in this country (murder, prostitution, porn, abortion, just to name a few)
and there ARE evil people in this government ( pro death people {what you libs like to call "pro choice" just to make the taking of an inocent life sound nice and pretty- you sick scums} )
but they country and the government are not evil

now someone said this and I quote "the Pope does not err EVER"
well it just so happens that I am studying this right now in religion- and YOU ARE WRONG- the Pope is a human being just like you and I and he does sin- he is however infalable ONLY WHEN SPEAKING TO THE WHOLE CHURCH ON MATTERS OF FAITH AND MORALS- so the statement that he never errs is just untrue

And of course I am a Catholic wayyy before an american or a republican but I WILL NOT STAND AROUND WHILE PEOPLE ATTACK MY GREAT COUNTRY- AND MOST ESPECAILLY CALLING OUR AMAZINGLY BRAVE MILITARY A BUNCH OF THUGS AND TERRORISTS- I SIMPLY WONT STAND FOR IT. And you know what just look at the numbers- 70% of our military supports BUSH- that SAYS something- they know best they are over there fighting- but oh yeah thats right theyre just a bunch of murderers to you. like I said- id like to see you take up arms to defend your country and go over there- then come and criticize them.

I STAND FULLY BEHIND OUR MILITARY. I SUPPORT OUR MILITARY 100%. THE JOB THEY ARE DOING IS SECOND TO NONE. WE ARE WINNING THE WAR. THEY ARE BRINGING THESE HATERS OF THE FREE WORLD TO JUSTICE. I COULNT BE PROUDER OF THESE BRAVE PEOPLE SERVING OUR GREAT COUNTRY. I STAND BEHIND AND SUPPORT OUR PRESIDENT- MR GEORGE W BUSH. AND I THINK HES DOING A GREAT JOB. I STAND FOR GOD, THE RIGHT TO LIFE, FOR FAMILY, AND FOR FREEDOM.

God bless

-curtins

[Good Friday]

[quote name='bookwyrm']Now, can we conduct a civilized debate without attacking each other?[/quote]
You haven't been here long, have you?

No, we cannot conduct a civilized debate here, because the conservative pseudo-Catholics (anyone who got offended by that comment: yes, it does mean YOU, by your own reaction to it) beat people who disagree with them to a bloody pulp with their encyclicals.

As for those of you who have showed, yes, [b]a total lack of compassion and Christian charity[/b] for people who were driven to suicide by the horrors of war which none of you have ever experienced: YOU DISGUST ME. You profane the name and image of Catholic Christianity with your pharisaical obedience to legalistic rules and regulations, while paying attention to nothing that Jesus actually said -- only what the latest pope has said, or what you [b]think[/b] he's said, or what you [b]wish[/b] he'd said. You are the people that drive people away from the Catholic Church, you are the kind of people who drive people away from Christianity altogether, because people see you, who claim to be the "Mystical Body of Christ" (what a JOKE!), acting the way you do and they say: "If they're supposed to be Jesus to the world, then Jesus must be pretty awful!"

I have been at Phatmass longer than most of the people on this thread, and what I've seen here has disgusted me over and over again. I will now likely be suspended permanently for calling a spade a spade (or a Pharisee a Pharisee), which is exactly what Jesus did (but that doesn't matter, because: "Who's Jesus? Was he a pope?"). What disgusts me more than anything is the deified figure of Ironmonk, the Phatmass idol-god, who is never suspended or punished for his outrageous behavior and his condescending attitude toward everyone here (and ESPECIALLY those who don't agree with him) because dUSt is biased against non-Catholics and Catholics who don't tow the Roman line enough, and Ironmonk is the perfect exterminator of those people -- Ironmonk pisses them off enough, and then they get outrageously angry (like I am right now), and then dUSt suspends them while letting him just keep doing what he's doing, driving people away from the Church and Christ and condemning himself again and again for his words and actions while also condeming dUSt, who has done an outstandingly LOUSY job of administrating this site, which is, by the way, about as "fair and balanced" as Fox News.

While you go on and on about how great you and yours are for accepting their responsibilities, and while Jesus shows ACTUAL compassion and welcomes even suicide VICTIMS into Heaven, I say with near-certainty that you will be less than amused and somewhat surprised when you get to Heaven and are told, "Depart from me . . ." I'd imagine your jaws will drop all the way to hell, and the rest of your body will soon follow. I'll see you there.

[Iacobus]

[quote name='Dreamweaver' date='Jan 13 2005, 01:51 AM'] Prayers for all our troops and their families. May they safetly return home.

As sad as it is, I agree with Kilroy. One doesn't join the military just to get free college and other bonuses. There is always the possibility of war, and always the possibility of being called to serve your country. [/quote]
I almost agree with you but something is differnent about this war. Firstly, it may be unjust (Cardianls have even hinted at that) and secondly it is poorly orginaized. We didn't set up the war to win the afterwar.

My dad's friend joined the Guard to pay for his nursing degree back in the 1980s. He deployed a few times (He had one tour in the 1st Iraq war) and he was excited about it. When he got home he was willing to go back if they needed him, he was having probly one of the best times of his life. He supported the Pres in the lead up to the war, he went to Iraq excited and he came home (only after having 3 surgeries because of a massive aorta blockage, they wouldn't let him go and his until has already been on a two year tour with a stop loss order) madder than anyone I have ever seen about this war and they way they were treated. A lot of people enlisted knowing they could have to serve in a way, but the way the Admin. is treating the troops isn't what was expected.

[Dreamweaver]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Jan 13 2005, 09:38 PM'] I almost agree with you but something is differnent about this war. Firstly, it may be unjust (Cardianls have even hinted at that) and secondly it is poorly orginaized. We didn't set up the war to win the afterwar. [/quote]
I do agree that the post-war mess is pretty messy (no pun intended). Left and right, more insurgents attack and make threats (and actual acts of violence) against Iraq's new government.

What is the US to do? If they just abandon ship and leave (after all, Saddam is out of power), people will be angry at America for abandoning a new country that can't survive on its own. If we stay behind and clean up the mess (as we are doing now, or at least trying to), we get accused of spreading OUR version of democracy and using Iraq as a puppet for our countries wants (and you can never forget the liberal's battle cry, "Bush is over there for the oil!")

America is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

[Iacobus]

[quote name='Dreamweaver' date='Jan 13 2005, 09:50 PM'] I do agree that the post-war mess is pretty messy (no pun intended). Left and right, more insurgents attack and make threats (and actual acts of violence) against Iraq's new government.

What is the US to do? If they just abandon ship and leave (after all, Saddam is out of power), people will be angry at America for abandoning a new country that can't survive on its own. If we stay behind and clean up the mess (as we are doing now, or at least trying to), we get accused of spreading OUR version of democracy and using Iraq as a puppet for our countries wants (and you can never forget the liberal's battle cry, "Bush is over there for the oil!")

America is stuck between a rock and a hard place. [/quote]
Bush was their for oil. Not anymore, his tail is inbetween his legs and he is running.

The problem is not that the post war mess is messy but that we never planned for the post war. We went in with too few troops according to many generals in the area, even Powell told Bush (the Great One) to wait for more troops to arrive. Bush didn't wait, because if he did he would have to wait a full year (they wanted to invade during the winter season). Thus we went in with too few troops. We weren't able to secure the nation (cough, we deployed troops at the oil ministery but not the muesum (which was looted)... hmmm, if Bush wasn't there for oil he has a lot of funnies going on) and to make matters worse, we debanded the Iraqi army.

The plan was to set up an American Ocupational Gov't which was done. However, they set it up and made it fully removed from the Iraqi people, hmmm this seems good. The Iraqi people had no legal recourse for any greivences.

We tried to run after giving some power over to the Iraqi forces (i.e. last March/Apr) which caused 3 cities to fall to the insugenice... :cough: Tet Offensive :cough:

Now, many of the generals in Iraq estmate that the insurgemence is bigger than the US forces at a rate of nearly two to one (200,000 insurgents and 115,000 US troops). We had a plan alright.

My point is that there should have been a plan, not that the US should cut and run. But the US will have to cut and run if this goes on for a year or more, Bush will never get a draft passed and we all know that "he never made a mistake" with the war, thus won't go feet kissing at the UN like he is going to have to in order to get more help.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Good Friday' date='Jan 13 2005, 09:34 PM'] [quote name='bookwyrm']Now, can we conduct a civilized debate without attacking each other?[/quote]
You haven't been here long, have you?

No, we cannot conduct a civilized debate here, because the conservative pseudo-Catholics (anyone who got offended by that comment: yes, it does mean YOU, by your own reaction to it) beat people who disagree with them to a bloody pulp with their encyclicals.

As for those of you who have showed, yes, [b]a total lack of compassion and Christian charity[/b] for people who were driven to suicide by the horrors of war which none of you have ever experienced: YOU DISGUST ME. You profane the name and image of Catholic Christianity with your pharisaical obedience to legalistic rules and regulations, while paying attention to nothing that Jesus actually said -- only what the latest pope has said, or what you [b]think[/b] he's said, or what you [b]wish[/b] he'd said. You are the people that drive people away from the Catholic Church, you are the kind of people who drive people away from Christianity altogether, because people see you, who claim to be the "Mystical Body of Christ" (what a JOKE!), acting the way you do and they say: "If they're supposed to be Jesus to the world, then Jesus must be pretty awful!"

I have been at Phatmass longer than most of the people on this thread, and what I've seen here has disgusted me over and over again. I will now likely be suspended permanently for calling a spade a spade (or a Pharisee a Pharisee), which is exactly what Jesus did (but that doesn't matter, because: "Who's Jesus? Was he a pope?"). What disgusts me more than anything is the deified figure of Ironmonk, the Phatmass idol-god, who is never suspended or punished for his outrageous behavior and his condescending attitude toward everyone here (and ESPECIALLY those who don't agree with him) because dUSt is biased against non-Catholics and Catholics who don't tow the Roman line enough, and Ironmonk is the perfect exterminator of those people -- Ironmonk pisses them off enough, and then they get outrageously angry (like I am right now), and then dUSt suspends them while letting him just keep doing what he's doing, driving people away from the Church and Christ and condemning himself again and again for his words and actions while also condeming dUSt, who has done an outstandingly LOUSY job of administrating this site, which is, by the way, about as "fair and balanced" as Fox News.

While you go on and on about how great you and yours are for accepting their responsibilities, and while Jesus shows ACTUAL compassion and welcomes even suicide VICTIMS into Heaven, I say with near-certainty that you will be less than amused and somewhat surprised when you get to Heaven and are told, "Depart from me . . ." I'd imagine your jaws will drop all the way to hell, and the rest of your body will soon follow. I'll see you there. [/quote]
Good Friday, your post disgusts me!

Its absurd accusations and complete lack of any semblence to Christian charity are beyond belief.

You hurl these outrages at people simply because they disagree with your political views (We all disagree with each other here, that's why it's a [b]debate[/b] table!) You tell people to go to hell (very Christian!) and then complain about lakc of Christian charity!

And you complain about hypocrisy!?

I'll be sure to pray for your soul.

(And IronMonk rules! He's no idol-god, but he still rules! )

[Good Friday]

Bumped for dUSt and the moderators, who are evidently sleeping on the job.

[curtins]

Good Friday-

since when are you the judge of who goes to heaven and hell??? and no one here is not showing compassion towards the soldier that killed himself. You are just trying to make up asinine arguments to further your politcal cause which is helpless, pathetic, and even more asinine than your arguments.

Dont bring dust into this- id like to see you admin a site as awsome as phatmass. plus dust is awsome. stop talkin trash about ironmonk just cause you know hes right.
If you dont like phatmass- leave
If you dont like america- leave

but dont bring others into your anti american, all phatmassers are evil, libral, cyclone of death

[Iacobus]

Curtins, I someday hope you figure it all out and can someday look around you and understand. You are, as shown by your last post, a person without any knowledge of his nation, and because you "love" America so much I am going to give you a short history lesson.

[quote]But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.[/quote]

Can you tell me what document I took that from? The Declaration of Independence. Do you know what T. Jefferson is saying there? When he says "it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Goverment?" He is saying that it is you job to complain, watch, hold your goverment accountable to you. If it fails to serve you and your fellow citizens, than it is your God given right and duty to do something about it. If you don't like America, which I highly doubt is the case with Good Friday or any of the other "Anti-American" Americans, than the last thing you should do is leave. It is your duty to stand up and scream from every mountain that "America is suffering, and here is why!"

[quote]Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.[/quote]

Now, can you tell me where I dug up this little gem? I know, it is hard to find now that we have no need for these "civil liberties" because they protect terrorists, but it is still in effect. Now, riddle me this, what does U.S. Const. art. VI, Paragraph 2 say?

Okay, times up. It says,

[quote]This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.[/quote]

In short, it means "This is the Bible of U.S. Law, nothing can supcede these words and it runs all the land."

Because the 1st Admendment is part of the US Con, than, according to the Supremacy Clause, GF doesn't have to like America to live here, but more to the point, he doesn't have to censor his speech only to praise of the US to be protected by law.

The whole history of why the US was founded was from a disagreement from England and than a disagreement between the states, and a disagreement between the parties (the Feds and the Anti-Feds).

Next time you tell someone to leave America because they don't love her, rember that all the Founding Father's disliked parts of America, America was founded on desent, and even Abe Lincoln opposed the Mexican War.

[popestpiusx]

Now isn’t this an interesting thread. Just a few non-theological, slightly reactionary thoughts on this subject:

1)Suicide is a tragedy. Pray for his soul.

2)Suicide is selfish as hell. Nothing is worth killing yourself over.

3)There is no excuse for suicide.

4)I am a traditionalist and a monarchist. I’m not crazy about this war. I didn’t vote for Bush.

5)I served four years (under bezaubernde Frau, Frau des Hauses Clinton) in the Marines.

6)When I signed the papers, not a month after starting my senior year of high school, I knew beaver dam good and well that I may be called on to serve in war, and that I may not like the conditions of that war.

7)Not surprisingly, I had to take part in the preliminary actions of Clinton’s wag the dog operation in Kosavo. I’ll say nothing more about that, as there is nothing more to say.

8)When you sign the papers, you belong to them. Unless an action is manifestly unjust, you are bound to your oath (sorry, I had to break into theology a little).

9)Stop kissing phatmass [color=red]Edited by Kilroy the Ninja[/color]

Edited January 14, 2005 by Kilroy the Ninja

[Good Friday]

[quote name='popestpiusx']9)Stop kissing phatmass [color=red]Edited by Kilroy the Ninja[/color].[/quote]
AMEN, BROTHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rotfl:

Edited January 14, 2005 by Kilroy the Ninja

[Guest Aluigi]

i'm a distributist and republican only in the Irish sense, though I did support Bush because I kinda like his policies and stuff especially compared to the other options Edited January 14, 2005 by Aluigi

[dUSt]

[quote name='Good Friday' date='Jan 13 2005, 10:27 PM'] Bumped for dUSt and the moderators, who are evidently sleeping on the job. [/quote]
Thanks. I will not respond to your criticisms of me except to say that your information regarding who has/hasn't been suspended is wrong. God bless.