cathqat Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 I'm very surprised Todd hasn't shown up to answer this thread! I hope this means he's writing a nasty letter to [i]This Rock[/i] magazine explaining that speaking of God's "uncreated energies" is [i]not[/i] depersonalizing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathqat Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Regarding your original question, I do not know any Orthodox or Eastern Catholic Christian who would consider statues "on par" with icons. Icons are written in such a way that they act like "windows." Three-dimensional statues are not made this way; the eye comes to rest on the statue itself and is not called to move beyond it. Nor do I know any Western Christians who would apply to statues the Eastern theology of icons. Most wouldn't go any farther than "A statue reminds you of St. So-and-So, and if you have faith, you can receive grace from thinking/meditating about St. So-and-So." Obviously, that falls far short of the Eastern vision of icons. I like statues, but I regard them as a much, much lesser art. (And Todd thinks it is degrading to regard iconography as an art at all.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JeffCR07 Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 *sigh* I really think you're right, and when Todd agrees (and I think he will) that will seal the deal (you two agreeing? ) I so wanted to find a western equivalent of icons...lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathqat Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 [quote name='JeffCR07' date='Jan 13 2005, 04:12 PM'] you two agreeing? [/quote] It's not so far-fetched as you may think. I think we both have a marked preference for Eastern theology in general, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 [quote name='spathariossa' date='Jan 12 2005, 01:26 AM'] Orthodoxy doesn't allow statuary. [/quote] After rebuilding Hagia Sophia (AD 532-537) Justinian had statues of the twelve Apostles placed on the trabes beam that was a part of the wall separating the sanctuary from the nave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 [quote name='cathqat' date='Jan 13 2005, 01:36 PM'] I'm very surprised Todd hasn't shown up to answer this thread! I hope this means he's writing a nasty letter to [i]This Rock[/i] magazine explaining that speaking of God's "uncreated energies" is [i]not[/i] depersonalizing! [/quote] Good thing I don't read "This Rock" magazine. But of course the fact is that the uncreated divine energies are the enactments of the divine essence by the three divine persons, and so the divine energies are [i]enhypostatic[/i] realities. Clearly, the divine energies are not depersonalizing, nor are they impersonal, quite the contrary they are personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathqat Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 Yeah, a recent book reviewer and a reader of [i]This Rock[/i] both denounced a book by George Maloney because they believed that what he said about God's uncreated energies was "depersonalizing," like the "Force" in Star Wars. They have no idea what they're talking about, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 [quote name='cathqat' date='Jan 13 2005, 05:02 PM'] Yeah, a recent book reviewer and a reader of [i]This Rock[/i] both denounced a book by George Maloney because they believed that what he said about God's uncreated energies was "depersonalizing," like the "Force" in Star Wars. They have no idea what they're talking about, obviously. [/quote] Interesting. But I'm sure the reviewer doesn't really understand the Eastern theological distinctions that he's supposedly "critiquing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jan 13 2005, 06:34 PM'] After rebuilding Hagia Sophia (AD 532-537) Justinian had statues of the twelve Apostles placed on the trabes beam that was a part of the wall separating the sanctuary from the nave. [/quote] Were these relief sculptures? Strictly speaking I don't think sculptures in the round are allowed. If they are then they're at least frowned upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 [quote name='spathariossa' date='Jan 13 2005, 06:31 PM'] Were these relief sculptures? Strictly speaking I don't think sculptures in the round are allowed. If they are then they're at least frowned upon. [/quote] They were not relief carvings, they were sculptures in the round set on top of the rood beam separating the nave from the bema. God bless, Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JeffCR07 Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 (edited) edit: you answered it on the question and answer board. Thanks! One final question: so would it be wrong for me to apply aspects of the eastern theology of icons to statues? Edited January 14, 2005 by JeffCR07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 [quote name='JeffCR07' date='Jan 13 2005, 07:48 PM'] edit: you answered it on the question and answer board. Thanks! One final question: so would it be wrong for me to apply aspects of the eastern theology of icons to statues? [/quote] I don't think it would necessarily be wrong to apply elements of Eastern iconic theology to the understanding of statues within the Western tradition, but whatever is used must harmonize with the overall spiritual and liturgical theology of the Latin rite. God bless, Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 (edited) actually i don't really believe that. you implied it... but i admit i was leading you on purposefully. i just felt like causing a stir. bowing down is showing respect to that person. the creatures of God need to be respected too as they are his creation. much like if you don't admire paintings and stuff then you're doing an injustice to the artist. especially if you only focus one the artist. my ignorant catholics thing is in response to an ignorant prots thing posted by someone else. they weren't knocked any points, so i decided to do it too. i'm wonderin if i woulda. but of cdourse i realize and don't really care if the mods are partial to nons anyway. it's human nature. and i suppose it makes it more fun. for awhile i had a disclaimer on there so everyone wouldn't start jumping on me explaining all that... but that really was no fun. so not too long ago i took it off. see, just like the hit and run message.. i was tryin to cause a stir. not sure if you knew of the old disclaimer and are still sayin that, but i thought i'd just fill in anyone who was unawares. :ph34r: Edited January 14, 2005 by dairygirl4u2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalyst Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 (edited) people bowed down tothe ark of the covenant because God said He would dwell there to be with His people in way that was tangible to them. He then moved into a temple. After Christs sacrifice He made US His temple. Its wrong to make idols and statues and bow down to them. No different than the golden calf. Edited January 14, 2005 by Catalyst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3chrmd Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 There is a difference in bowing down to a statue in "worship" of the statue...and bowing down in respect for the person whom the statue represents! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now