a light in the darkness

[Archangel]

[quote name='Catalyst' date='Jan 24 2005, 11:15 AM']Jesus said:
"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking"(Matt. 6:7).
[/quote]
Psalm 136 repeats "God's love endures forever" over 20 times.

1 Praise the LORD, who is so good; [b]God's love endures forever;[/b]
2 Praise the God of gods; [b]God's love endures forever;[/b]
3 Praise the Lord of lords; [b]God's love endures forever;[/b]
4 Who alone has done great wonders, [b]God's love endures forever;[/b]
5 Who skillfully made the heavens, [b]God's love endures forever;[/b]
6 Who spread the earth upon the waters, [b]God's love endures forever;[/b]
7 Who made the great lights, [b]God's love endures forever;[/b]
8 The sun to rule the day, [b]God's love endures forever;[/b]
9 The moon and stars to rule the night, [b]God's love endures forever;[/b]
10 Who struck down the firstborn of Egypt, [b]God's love endures forever;[/b]
11 And led Israel from their midst, [b]God's love endures forever;[/b]
12 With mighty hand and outstretched arm, [b]God's love endures forever;[/b]
13 Who split in two the Red Sea, [b]God's love endures forever;[/b]
14 And led Israel through, [b]God's love endures forever;[/b]
15 But swept Pharaoh and his army into the Red Sea, [b]God's love endures forever;[/b]
16 Who led the people through the desert, [b]God's love endures forever;[/b]
17 Who struck down great kings, [b]God's love endures forever;[/b]
18 Slew powerful kings, [b]God's love endures forever;[/b]
19 Sihon, king of the Amorites, [b]God's love endures forever;[/b]
20 Og, king of Bashan, [b]God's love endures forever;[/b]
21 And made their lands a heritage, [b]God's love endures forever;[/b]
22 A heritage for Israel, God's servant, [b]God's love endures forever;[/b]
23 The LORD remembered us in our misery, [b]God's love endures forever;[/b]
24 Freed us from our foes, [b]God's love endures forever;[/b]
25 And gives food to all flesh, [b]God's love endures forever.[/b]
26 Praise the God of heaven, [b]God's love endures forever.[/b]

[Catalyst]

alot of psalms where songs tho....praising God. Not prayers. You do know King David was a musician right? So put that tongue back in your mouth. You gotta be able to come with something better than that. You can check out one of his prayers, 2 samuel verse 22. See the difference?
You responded to only one point even. Plus what you pointed out is to God, not to Marry or the saint when you pray the rosary. Even that has a dead Christ still hang on the cross...Hes not on it anymore people.
He died and resurected, He's given you the Holy spirit so you can do the same things that He, Paul, Peter, John, that all these people did. Be a true Christian with an intimate relationship with God. Praying for His wisdom, His understanding and compassion for the lost.
Forget the spare rituals from the catechism, and look at Gods commandments from the bible. Die to self, to to your fleshly needs so that God can use you as a vessel. Man does not live by bread alone but by every word of the bible. Logos, and rhema. Study the bible from beginning to end. The beginning is as important as the new beginning.

This is for another topic on here, but protestants do believe in free will. How else could Adam have eaten the apple when God told him not too.

In th ebible it says to seek understanding above all else even tho it may cost everything you have. Could you do that for God?

Edited January 25, 2005 by Catalyst

[Eucharistaholic]

Catalyst,

I think we know he is not on the Cross anymore. Last I checked we still go to Easter service to celebrate the Resurrection.

But guess what, His SACRIFICE on the Cross endures. This was an eternal sacrifice for all men. Otherwise, He would have only sacrificed for the sins of the those who came before Him and those of His time. By only embracing the Resurrected Jesus, you miss the entire point. The Resurrection gives us hope, His ETERNAL sacrifice offers us salvation.

Peace,
E-aholic

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='spathariossa' date='Jan 23 2005, 10:30 PM'] Science only contradicts with religion if you read the bible literally - something you shouldn't be doing. [/quote]
You keep repeating this, but it is incorrect.

[Archangel]

[quote name='Catalyst' date='Jan 25 2005, 11:48 AM']alot of psalms where songs tho....praising God. Not prayers. You do know King David was a musician right? So put that tongue back in your mouth. You gotta be able to come with something better than that. You can check out one of his prayers, 2 samuel verse 22. See the difference?
You responded to only one point even. Plus what you pointed out is to God, not to Marry or the saint when you pray the rosary. Even that has a dead Christ still hang on the cross...Hes not on it anymore people.
He died and resurected, He's given you the Holy spirit so you can do the same things that He, Paul, Peter, John, that all these people did. Be a true Christian with an intimate relationship with God. Praying for His wisdom, His understanding and compassion for the lost.
  Forget the spare rituals from the catechism, and look at Gods commandments from the bible. Die to self, to to your fleshly needs so that God can use you as a vessel. Man does not live by bread alone but by every word of the bible. Logos, and rhema. Study the bible from beginning to end. The beginning is as important as the new beginning.

This is for another topic on here, but protestants do believe in free will. How else could Adam have eaten the apple when God told him not too.

In th ebible it says to seek understanding above all else even tho it may cost everything you have. Could you do that for God?[/quote]
What? A psalm (or a song) can't a prayer? I guess you don't sing in your church, huh?

Anyway, even Jesus [b]repeated[/b] prayers. See Matthew 26:

39 He advanced a little and fell prostrate in prayer, saying, [b]"My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; yet, not as I will, but as you will."[/b]

42 Withdrawing a second time, [b]he [u]prayed again[/u], "My Father, if it is not possible that this cup pass without my drinking it, your will be done!"[/b]

44 He left them and withdrew again and [b]prayed a third time, [u]saying the same thing again[/u].[/b]

Before you criticize the rosary, why don't you do yourself a favor and learn about it, okay?

[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Rosary.asp"]http://www.catholic.com/library/Rosary.asp[/url]

Now please take your foot out of your mouth and sing some praises to God -- Oops! You don't sing songs to God.

[Catalyst]

your still missing my point....instead of saying hail mary's. How about some hail Jehovas. I know about the rosary and my foot was never in my mouth. While you waste you time asking for prayers from saints...everyone up in heaven is already intersessing over you, and what you ask of, ask of it from God!!!!. The bible says imitate the faith of the saints, not praise them and revere them. Respect them and learn about them from their acts in the bible, seek wisdom and understanding. Yeah the crusifix depicts His death, but theres something even even better, His ressurection and His gift the Holy spirit so that He may walk with us once again much like He did adam. We were commanded no to bow down or use any graven images.
Jesus came for reconsiliation period.
In the bible is says this. People when they die they will face judgement and Jesus will say depart from me for I do not know you. People will say, but Lord, I prophesied and cast out demons in your name. He will say, depart from me for I do not KNOW you.

Elohim-my God, my creator
Jehovah- my father
Jehovah El- Shaddai- my supplier
Adonai-my Lord, my Master
Jehovah Jireh- My provider
Jehovah Rophe- my healer
Jehovah Nissi- my victory
Jehovah-M'kaddesh-my sanctifier
Jehovah Shalom- My peace
Jehovah Tsidkenu- my righteousness
Jehovah Rohi- my shappard

is this not enough for you to give Him your undivided praise?

Mary, was blessed to bear the messiah, due to her lineage, but also due to the fact that she was about to carry the messiah. However, born to a man and woman, shes born to die. She could not have been saved by Jesus grace before He hung up the cross as God follows His own law.

In all you do, if you call yourself Christian, read the bible and know God. Through establishing a relationship God you'll understand God even more and His love. Pray for not just a head knowledge but that its in bedded in your heart, in your spirit. We must take our cross and spread the good news of His ressurection.

Every lash, punch, and burn from the whip Jesus felt, everyone of our faces went through His mind. He died not to establish a relationship with saint, but with the God who loves you so much and knows everything about you, even the number of the hairs on your head.

Seek Him, the only way to do that is through the bible and in prayer with Him.

Edited January 26, 2005 by Catalyst

[spathariossa]

I know you're just repeating the same nonsense over and over with no regards to what people tell you but I'd like to share a moment of insight I had with you regarding the crucifix.

I was sitting in a Catholic church with an incredibly lifelike crucifix (a huge one) sitting right behind the altar. I looked at the crucifix and from my front row seat I could get a very clear glimpse of it. I was transfixed by it. The more I looked at it the more I thought how horrible it must have been for Christ. And I realized that deep down I wanted to do what the followers of Christ had done - take him off of the cross.

I thought for a moment that perhaps the protestants were right. Perhaps having such a gruesome image so prominently displayed was wrong - or even sinful. But then I had a flash of realization. Nothing I do can undo what happened to Christ. Nothing I do can take away the pain and suffering he endured for the sins of everyone. Nothing I can do can make me stop sinning for even one day. But also, nothing I can do can take away the promise of salvation and nothing I can do can take away the immense humility and condescension it took for God to die on a cross at the hands of his creation.

So for me the crucifix is crucially important. It reveals to us the end result of sin - death. But it also brings to us the promise of something greater. It can never be undone. Even though Christ was removed from the cross and rose from the dead, when he rose he had wounds in his hands and feet. In the same way, the crucifixion itself endures.

And if you really want to get technical, God exists outside of time and is in all times and all places at once. So he is still hanging on that cross in some respects.

[Catalyst]

nope. In no respects. Its not nonsense, I used scipture backed by scripture. You used scripture backed by catechism. think about it. Christ ressurected miss...Hes not hanging on the cross... He ressurected...you have been watching too much sci fi miss.

Edited January 26, 2005 by Catalyst

[Archangel]

[quote name='Catalyst' date='Jan 25 2005, 03:58 PM']your still missing my point....instead of saying hail mary's. How about some hail Jehovas. I know about the rosary and my foot was never in my mouth. While you waste you time asking for prayers from saints...everyone up in heaven is already intersessing over you, and what you ask of, ask of it from God!!!!. The bible says imitate the faith of the saints, not praise them and revere them. Respect them and learn about them from their acts in the bible, seek wisdom and understanding. Yeah the crusifix depicts His death, but theres something even even better, His ressurection and His gift the Holy spirit so that He may walk with us once again much like He did adam. We were commanded no to bow down or use any graven images.
Jesus came for reconsiliation period.
In the bible is says this. People when they die they will face judgement and Jesus will say depart from me for I do not know you. People will say, but Lord, I prophesied and cast out demons in your name. He will say, depart from me for I do not KNOW you.

Elohim-my God, my creator
Jehovah- my father
Jehovah El- Shaddai- my supplier
Adonai-my Lord, my Master
Jehovah Jireh- My provider
Jehovah Rophe- my healer
Jehovah Nissi- my victory
Jehovah-M'kaddesh-my sanctifier
Jehovah Shalom- My peace
Jehovah Tsidkenu- my righteousness
Jehovah Rohi- my shappard

is this not enough for you to give Him your undivided praise?

Mary, was blessed to bear the messiah, due to her lineage, but also due to the fact that she was about to carry the messiah. However, born to a man and woman, shes born to die. She could not have been saved by Jesus grace before He hung up the cross as God follows His own law.

In all you do, if you call yourself Christian, read the bible and know God. Through establishing a relationship God you'll understand God even more and His love. Pray for not just a head knowledge but that its in bedded in your heart, in your spirit. We must take our cross and spread the good news of His ressurection.

Every lash, punch, and burn from the whip Jesus felt, everyone of our faces went through His mind. He died not to establish a relationship with saint, but with the God who loves you so much and knows everything about you, even the number of the hairs on your head.

Seek Him, the only way to do that is through the bible and in prayer with Him.[/quote]
And you miss the point of the rosary. It is a prayer that allows us to meditate on the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. Your foot was in your mouth when you spoke against the rosary because it is a repetitive prayer. I have shown from Scripture that repetition is okay: the Psalms praising God repeat and Jesus also repeated His prayers.

By the way, do you pray to God for your family and friends?

[MaxKolbe]

I just got back from the March for Life, which was awsome by the way! and i had a conversation with Matt on this exact subject. It took place at the Arlington Cemetary. We were seeking to find a difference between people leaving flowers for loved ones that have died next to their tombstone or even having some sort of conversation with their loved one that has passed on...with..... Catholics praying through Saints that have died. We came to realize that there isn't much difference at all.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='spathariossa' date='Jan 23 2005, 11:30 PM'] Science only contradicts with religion if you read the bible literally - something you shouldn't be doing. [/quote]
The first sense of the Bible is always literal.

[spathariossa]

[quote name='Catalyst' date='Jan 25 2005, 11:34 PM'] nope. In no respects. Its not nonsense, I used scipture backed by scripture. You used scripture backed by catechism. think about it. Christ ressurected miss...Hes not hanging on the cross... He ressurected...you have been watching too much sci fi miss. [/quote]
You don't believe that God exists outside of time?

[Catalyst]

He created time, of coarse He does. He doesn't go back and forth and change things in history tho. He made a law, rules for a reason. Do you know anything about Gods law? Where did you get this? Not the bible that is for sure...who told you this?

Edited January 28, 2005 by Catalyst

[spathariossa]

[quote name='Catalyst' date='Jan 27 2005, 10:50 PM'] He created time, of coarse He does. He doesn't go back and forth and change things in history tho. He made a law, rules for a reason. Do you know anything about Gods law? Where did you get this? Not the bible that is for sure...who told you this? [/quote]
I didn't say he changes anything. I just mean that if God exists outside of time and is omnipresent then that means he is eternally present in every moment in time.

[crusader1234]

[quote name='Catalyst' date='Jan 24 2005, 03:15 PM'] Jesus said:
"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking"(Matt. 6:7).
[/quote]
This simply means that when people pray, they shouldn't just chant. Vain repetitions means simply spewing out the same thing over and over again without thinking about it. Saying the Our Father only once can be a 'vain repetition' if you aren't focusing on what you are saying and what it means.

[quote]
this goes towards praying the rosary awsell,[/quote]

How does it go towards the rosary? Just because something is repeated does not make it a vain repetition. Jesus reminds us to consider our prayers, make sure they are not mindless chants, not to avoid repetition. When people pray the Rosary, they are supposed to be thinking about what it means.