a light in the darkness

[Catalyst]

Galatians

No Other Gospel
6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel– 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!


Check your Catechisms....

The Bible says:

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
-Romans 3:19-24

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith -- and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God -- not by works, so that no one can boast.
-Ephesians 2:8-9

Catholicism says:

Man is justified by baptism plus faith, plus additional works (check Catholic Catechism Ref. Nos. 1265-1271, 1987-1995). The Holy Spirit's transforming work in the sinner becomes the grounds, along with faith, for justification. Most good Catholics are therefore very concerned with "being good enough," "meriting," and "earning" their salvation.
The Catholic Catechism says of baptism, for example: "Baptism not only purifies from all sins, but also makes the neophyte 'a new creature,' an adopted son of God, who has become a 'partaker of the divine nature,' member of Christ and co-heir with him, and a temple of the Holy Spirit" (Catechism 1265)... Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians" (Catechism 1271).


selah- pause and calmly think about this

[cathqat]

[quote name='Catalyst' date='Jan 10 2005, 01:16 AM']For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith -- and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God -- not by works, so that no one can boast.[/quote]

Read the whole passage, please: "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. "

[quote]Catholicism says: Man is justified by baptism plus faith, plus additional works.... Most good Catholics are therefore very concerned with "being good enough," "meriting," and "earning" their salvation.[/quote]

Your flawed interpretation of Catholic teaching, in the words of Larry the Cucumber, "[i]couldn't be more wronger[/i]."

As I said before, elsewhere....

One of my favorite passages from Catholic Apologist Jimmy Akin:
[quote]You don't have to do a diddly-do-da thing after being justified by God in baptism in order to go to heaven. There is no magic level of works one needs to achieve in order to go to heaven. One is saved the moment one is initially justified. The only things one then does is good works because one loves God (the only kind which receive rewards) and not choose to cast out God's grace by mortal sin. And even if one does cast it out by mortal sin, the only thing needed to get it back was the same thing needed to get it in the first place -- repentance, faith, and sacrament, except the sacrament in this case is confession rather than baptism.

People try to make the Catholic message sound complex, but it's really simple: "Repent, believe and be baptized (c.f. Acts 2:37-39); then if you commit mortal sin, repent, believe, and confess. Period." -- even a five year old child can understand that.[/quote]

[b]The Most Basic Catholic Teaching on Justification in a Nutshell[/b]

Without God, you're dead (Eph. 2:5), and there's absolutely nothing --not works, not faith, not anything-- a dead person can do to make himself alive (Council of Trent, [i]Decree on Justification[/i] chapter 8). A dead person cannot be a cause in his own regeneration (Council of Trent, [i]Decree on Justification[/i] chapter 7). Unfortunately for us, this is the state into which we were born, [b]in Adam[/b], deprived of grace and spiritual life (Council of Trent, [i]Decree on Original Sin[/i], [i]Decree on Justification[/i] chapter 1).

However, when the Father gratuitously recreates you [b]in Christ[/b] (2Cor. 5:17-18), gives you supernatural life by "the Spirit of sonship" (Rom. 8:15-17), and gives you faith, hope, and charity (the virtues of 1Cor. 13:13), He can empower you with His grace to do anything (Council of Trent, [i]Decree on Justification[/i]). After all, "all things are possible with God" (Mk. 10:27) and "nothing will be impossible to you" (Mt. 17:20). Jesus promised "you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you" (Acts 1:18). To what purpose? "We have received grace... to bring about the obedience of faith" (Rom. 1:5; also known as "faith working in love" in Gal. 5:6, which Paul calls "good works" in Eph. 2:10). The Lord says "My grace is sufficient for you" (2Cor. 12:9), and we answer "by the grace of God I am what I am" (1Cor 15:10), a child of God the Father (1Jn. 3:1).

Our Father really does have both the love and the power to completely transform men, in Christ and by the Holy Spirit, into beloved sons.

[i]If you can understand and remember this, you can understand Catholic teaching about justification.[/i]

[url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=3497&view=findpost&p=471628"]http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showt...ndpost&p=471628[/url]

Edited January 10, 2005 by cathqat

[Catalyst]

what do you believe the power of the Holy Spirit is?

[mulls]

[quote name='Catalyst' date='Jan 10 2005, 02:16 AM']
selah- pause and calmly think about this [/quote]
i sense an Ambassador fan in the house...

[cathqat]

[quote name='Catalyst' date='Jan 10 2005, 06:11 PM'] what do you believe the power of the Holy Spirit is? [/quote]
God the Holy Trinity dwelling within you, inflaming you with zealous faith and ardent love, divinizing you by the gracious gift of God's uncreated energies, empowering you to live a virtuous life, giving you the hope of glory, etc.

Maybe you could explain your question better.

[Oik]

St. Paul says we have to work out our salvation with pain and suffering. Then james says faith without works is dead.

Now, we, as individuals, do not merit our salvation, but we are commanded Christ (and demonstrated by His life) to live in a way that we are participating in that Grace that has redeemed us. That is to say, we must unite our sufferings with The Suffering of Christ. Otherwise, our suffering is in vain.

[Catalyst]

what do you think of healing and prophesy?
do you believe these died with the apostles?

and selah mean to pause and calmly think about something. Yes, I do like Ambassadors cd.

Edited January 10, 2005 by Catalyst

[cathqat]

[quote name='Catalyst' date='Jan 10 2005, 06:47 PM'] what do you think of healing and prophesy?
do you believe these died with the apostles?
[/quote]
No. Healings and prophecy have occurred within the Church throughout the centuries.

[Catalyst]

Why in your avatar Cathqat do you give praise to a dead woman?

[cathqat]

[quote name='Catalyst' date='Jan 11 2005, 05:42 PM'] Why in your avatar Cathqat do you give praise to a dead woman? [/quote]
She is not dead. She is alive to God (Luke 20:38) in Christ. And since we are both branches whose life comes from the save True Vine, members of the same Body, she is alive to me too.

[Catalyst]

Have you read the rest of the bible? Have you regarded what it says about praying and giving praise to those who have recieved judgment?

Deuteronomy 18
10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who CONSULTS THE DEAD.


Hebrews 9:27
Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

Edited January 12, 2005 by Catalyst

[jasJis]

[quote name='Catalyst' date='Jan 11 2005, 10:17 PM'] Have you read the rest of the bible? Have you regarded what it says about praying and giving praise to those who have recieved judgment?

Hebrews 9:27
Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, [/quote]
catalyst,
Have you read ALL the bible? Don't you know that through Jesus, God defeated death and that we are alive in Christ? Don'y you know that only through Grace can we or Catherine do any thing that is Good? To praise or honor the actions of Catherine, is to praise and honor God's Grace that she said yes to and enabled her. To demean what good things Catherine had done is to demean the very God who graced her.

I don't demean God or His Grace. Should you?

[Catalyst]

we all still die a physical death do we not? What you speak of is on the spiritual side of things.


Oh yeah, Yeshua isn't hanging upon the cross anymore.

I'm not questioning Catherines works, I'm questioning your praise to those who past away.

Edited January 12, 2005 by Catalyst

[Catalyst]

only through grace? what is your deffinition of God's grace?

[jasJis]

[quote name='Catalyst' date='Jan 11 2005, 10:33 PM'] we all still die a physical death do we not? What you speak of is on the spiritual side of things.


Oh yeah, Yeshua isn't hanging upon the cross anymore.

I'm not questioning Catherines works, I'm questioning your praise to those who past away. [/quote]
Hebrews 13:7
"Remember your leaders who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith."

The outcome of their way of live was persecution and death. We are told to remember the dead and imitate their faith.