Apotheoun Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 [quote name='spathariossa' date='Jan 10 2005, 01:33 AM'] Right, but that doesn't mean a label of psychiatric disorder is necessarily correct. It may be a disordered state of being but the Church doesn't claim to know where the disorder resides or how precisely it manifests itself. As a result basing a DSM suggestion on Catholic theology is rather nonsensical. [/quote] The Church does know where this disorder resides, it resides in the defective will of fallen man. Moreover, Catholic moral theology is based both on divine revelation and the natural moral law, and so, it is the perfect basis for establishing the DSM. Catholics are not fideists. God bless, Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jan 10 2005, 03:35 AM'] If it perdures over time as some kind of stable condition, it is a psychiatric illness. God bless, Todd [/quote] And what's your basis for that conclusion? Whose definition of psychiatric illness? What axis are you referring to if you are using the standard DSM diagnosis? These sorts of questions need to be answered to level charges of psychiatric illness at anyone. I'm personally glad homosexuality was removed from the DSM because it makes people believe that such a thing is treatable with therapy, as though a true sexuality can somehow be restored. However, I think it is much more akin to the more severe disorder like schizophrenia where there is really nothing therapy can do for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Apotheoun. I don't much believe in psychology and your statement is not Church Teaching. Therefore, I hope we can respectfully disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jan 10 2005, 03:38 AM'] The Church does know where this disorder resides, it resides in the defective will of fallen man. Moreover, Catholic moral theology is based both on divine revelation and the natural moral law, and so, it is the perfect basis for establishing the DSM. Catholics are not fideists. God bless, Todd [/quote] Not the DSM as a Diagnostic and Statistics Manual written by secular psychiatrists for secular psychiatrists. I'm not saying the Church is wrong, I'm saying the DSM is a non sequitor if your argument is that homosexuality is fundamentally wrong to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 [quote name='hyperdulia again' date='Jan 10 2005, 01:39 AM'] Apotheoun. I don't much believe in psychology and your statement is not Church Teaching. Therefore, I hope we can respectfully disagree. [/quote] Both of the documents issued by the CDF on this matter are clear, the homosexual condition is an objective disorder, it is not morally neutral, it is also, as the CDF has declared, a "pathological constitution," and must be treated as such. [url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=26572&view=findpost&p=477763"]Excerpts from Persona Humana and Homosexualitatis Problema[/url] God bless, Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spathariossa Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jan 10 2005, 03:44 AM'] Both of the documents issued by the CDF on this matter are clear, the homosexual condition is an objective disorder, it is not morally neutral, it is also, as the CDF has declared, a "pathological constitution," and must be treated as such. [url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=26572&view=findpost&p=477763"]Excerpts from Persona Humana and Homosexualitatis Problema[/url] God bless, Todd [/quote] Yeah but the DSM would still be a red herring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 [quote name='spathariossa' date='Jan 10 2005, 01:40 AM'] Not the DSM as a Diagnostic and Statistics Manual written by secular psychiatrists for secular psychiatrists. I'm not saying the Church is wrong, I'm saying the DSM is a non sequitor if your argument is that homosexuality is fundamentally wrong to begin with. [/quote] You may wish to differentiate between "secular" truth and "religious" truth, but I will not subscribe to that heresy. Truth is one. The homosexual condition, if it perdures over time exhibits a pathological constitution, and as such it should be treated as a mental disorder, a defect of the soul (psyche), and the person afflicted with this condition should receive proper treatment, both spiritual and psychological. God bless, Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 [quote name='spathariossa' date='Jan 10 2005, 01:46 AM'] Yeah but the DSM would still be a red herring. [/quote] Only to you. The condition if it perdures over time is a psychological disorder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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