Question to FORMER Catholics and ICTHUS

[Socrates]

[quote name='XIX' date='Jan 17 2005, 01:37 AM'] I had somebody tell me that it could have been a spaceship or a UFO and this stuff happens all the time.  There have probably been instances of what seemed like mass hallucination before...

This coming from a guy who, ten minutes earlier, couldn't have told me where on the globe is Fatima located.  Heck, I don't think he could have told me it was a place at all! 


Slightly outlandish... [/quote]
Oh yeah, this stuff happens [i]all[/i] the time! At least where I'm from. Happened to me just last Thursday!

Gotta love those people! If there's a religious phenomena they can't explain, it must be those darned space aliens with their UFOs! (Who for some strange reason seem intent on making Earthlings devout Catholics!)
Oh, now I get it! The Pope's really a Martian!

Edited January 18, 2005 by Socrates

[Socrates]

[quote name='the protector' date='Jan 18 2005, 01:57 PM'] original post edited [/quote]
Hey, no need to be bitter just because you lost that "overpopulation" debate.
I wanna spend eternity praising God with Ironmonk!

Edited January 18, 2005 by IcePrincessKRS

[the protector]

First of all, there is no debate over overpopulation . It is already here. The earth is 2/3's above it's carrying capacity. The less energy to go around, the more it will manifest itself; Leibig's Law. You can't refute the Laws of Thermodynamics.

The earth's population was a little under a billion before the Industrial Revolution (fueled by cheap energy). It is now 6.2 billion. That 6.2 billion is facing an energy crisis. The energy crisis is just one of the problems facing an overpopulated world. And no, Socrates, one of the other problems is not them qwerties getting hitched.

If you [color=red][Edited by Kilroy the Ninja][/color]debate the ecologist I cited, you'd get laughed at. By the way, that opportunity is still available.

www.peakoil.com

[color=red][Edited by Kilroy the Ninja due to Personal Attack][/color]
Love ya.

Edited January 18, 2005 by Kilroy the Ninja

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

[quote name='the protector' date='Jan 18 2005, 03:34 PM'] First of all, there is no debate over overpopulation . It is already here. The earth is 2/3's above it's carrying capacity. The less energy to go around, the more it will manifest itself; Leibig's Law. You can't refute the Laws of Thermodynamics.

The earth's population was a little under a billion before the Industrial Revolution (fueled by cheap energy). It is now 6.2 billion. That 6.2 billion is facing an energy crisis. The energy crisis is just one of the problems facing an overpopulated world. And no, Socrates, one of the other problems is not them qwerties getting hitched.

If you [color=red][Edited by Kilroy the Ninja][/color]debate the ecologist I cited, you'd get laughed at. By the way, that opportunity is still available.

www.peakoil.com

[color=red][Edited by Kilroy the Ninja due to Personal Attack][/color]
Love ya. [/quote]
What energy crisis?

[ironmonk]

[quote name='the protector' date='Jan 18 2005, 04:34 PM'] First of all, there is no debate over overpopulation .  It is already here.  The earth is 2/3's above it's carrying capacity. The less energy to go around, the more it will manifest itself; Leibig's Law.  You can't refute the Laws of Thermodynamics. 

The earth's population was a little under a billion before the Industrial Revolution (fueled by cheap energy).  It is now 6.2 billion.  That 6.2 billion is facing an energy crisis.  The energy crisis is just one of the problems facing an overpopulated world.  And no, Socrates, one of the other problems is not them qwerties getting hitched.

If you [color=red][Edited by Kilroy the Ninja][/color]debate the ecologist I cited, you'd get laughed at.  By the way, that opportunity is still available.

www.peakoil.com

[color=red][Edited by Kilroy the Ninja due to Personal Attack][/color]
Love ya. [/quote]
LOL... I really wish I could have seen what was edited.


You should really study all sides of an arguement before picking a side. A little knowledge with little logic is dangerous.

This doesn't have to do with the "law" of thermodynamics. If you knew anything about science you would know that the study of what the world can support is very young, and science is always changing, there are few things that don't. As man's knowledge deepens, he finds himself correcting past errors.

I would bet you believe the global warming hype too. Which has only been being watched for about 50 years. Seeing that the world is so many millions of years old, that volcanoes put out more pollutants than we do, it's foolish to think the sky is falling. What the left fails to mention is that the Earth has lost about 10% of it's magnetic field over the past 50 years... which that is what scientists believe protects us from most things, and the field is thought to come from the earth's core.

It's all a cycle.

Also, the law that applies best is the law of conservation of matter, not thermodynamics.


It doesn't matter anyway because God will protect His people. The second coming of Christ will come before humans have a chance to destroy the world. If you want to go here better study Fatima and Saint Pio.

Therefore we have nothing to worry about. I'm not saying we should pollute, but saying there is a population problem and that the earth cannot support what's coming is just asinine. If you want to talk about the law of thermodynamics; then you need to pay attention to how much wasted energy there is. Farmers are paid not to grow food, plenty of space to farm even more.

We are thousands of years away from where the population will be to big for the planet.


God Bless,
ironmonk

Edited January 18, 2005 by ironmonk

[Theoketos]

What the sky is falling?!!!

Suns under some tin...

[Broccolifish]

[quote name='Krush2k2' date='Jan 9 2005, 02:00 PM'] I always ask this to those who have turned away from the church and can never seem to get a straight answer. Since you were once part of the Catholic church-how do you now view OUR LADY OF FATIMA(thousands of witnesses) AND the Stigmata of Padre Pio? It seems to me you cant argue against it and find a way to explain why that happened and the Catholic church to not be the one true church-as it is. Explain that to me [/quote]
[color=blue]Deu 13:1 "If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder,
Deu 13:2 and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, 'Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,'
Deu 13:3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you to find out if you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. [/color]

The three children were false prophets, and the "miracle" at Fatima was either a hoax or a work of Satan. Those who follow after this idolatrous apparition forsake the Gospel.

The Stigmata are not mentioned in the Scriptures; they are an immaterial physical manifestation. Perhaps they are psychosomatic, perhaps they are demonic, or perhaps they are self-inflicted. So, I've argued against them. I will tell you this immediately: If the visions and predictions at Fatima are truly a miracle from God, then Roman Catholicism must be true. However, you will have a hard time proving that it's the work of God, rather than the alternative. If Padre Pio's Stigmata are a miracle from God, then we've only established that God works within the Roman Catholic Church.

Why the distinction? Because only the Roman Catholic Church holds to a doctrine so violent to the Gospel as the Marian cult.

Is that a straight enough answer for you?

Edited January 19, 2005 by Broccolifish

[cathqat]

[quote name='Broccolifish' date='Jan 19 2005, 01:44 AM'] The Stigmata are not mentioned in the Scriptures [/quote]
"I bear on my body the marks [Gk: [i]stigmata[/i]] of Jesus." Galatians 6:17

[Broccolifish]

[quote name='cathqat' date='Jan 19 2005, 01:55 AM'] "I bear on my body the marks [Gk: [i]stigmata[/i]] of Jesus." Galatians 6:17 [/quote]
Galatians 6:17 is the only appearance of any form of the word [i]stigma[/i], which refers to a mark of ownership, or a mark of service. The wounds of Christ are called just that-- wounds-- for example in 1 Peter 2:24. One would have to assume the authority of Rome to declare that Paul received what Rome calls stigmata for the appearance of the word in Greek to be any sort of argument. Show me that [i]what Rome calls 'stigmata' appears in the Scriptures[/i].

Edited January 19, 2005 by Broccolifish

[cathqat]

[quote name='Broccolifish' date='Jan 19 2005, 02:04 AM'] Show me that [i]what Rome calls 'stigmata' appears in the Scriptures[/i]. [/quote]
You said that stigmata don't appear in Scripture. The exact word [i]stigmata[/i] appears in Galatians. You can claim it's something different, if you like, but at least admit you were wrong.

[Broccolifish]

My post is available for all to see. I stated, [i]"The Stigmata are not mentioned in the Scriptures."[/i] I did not say that the Greek word "stigmata" does not appear in the Scriptures. I apologize if you assumed I was referring to the frequency of the word, but my intention was to point out that the phenomenon manifested by Padre Pio is something which is not mentioned by the Word.

Edited January 19, 2005 by Broccolifish

[peach_cube]

[quote name='Broccolifish' date='Jan 19 2005, 03:44 AM'] [color=blue]Deu 13:1 "If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder,
Deu 13:2 and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, 'Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,'
Deu 13:3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you to find out if you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. [/color]

The three children were false prophets, and the "miracle" at Fatima was either a hoax or a work of Satan. Those who follow after this idolatrous apparition forsake the Gospel.

The Stigmata are not mentioned in the Scriptures; they are an immaterial physical manifestation. Perhaps they are psychosomatic, perhaps they are demonic, or perhaps they are self-inflicted. So, I've argued against them. I will tell you this immediately: If the visions and predictions at Fatima are truly a miracle from God, then Roman Catholicism must be true. However, you will have a hard time proving that it's the work of God, rather than the alternative. If Padre Pio's Stigmata are a miracle from God, then we've only established that God works within the Roman Catholic Church.

Why the distinction? Because only the Roman Catholic Church holds to a doctrine so violent to the Gospel as the Marian cult.

Is that a straight enough answer for you? [/quote]
Broc,

You really need to look at the science and research already done by sceptics before you make the conclusion that it is a hoax or anything else.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Broccolifish' date='Jan 19 2005, 04:10 AM'] My post is available for all to see. I stated, [i]"The Stigmata are not mentioned in the Scriptures."[/i] I did not say that the Greek word "stigmata" does not appear in the Scriptures. I apologize if you assumed I was referring to the frequency of the word, but my intention was to point out that the phenomenon manifested by Padre Pio is something which is not mentioned by the Word. [/quote]
And your point is?

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Broccolifish' date='Jan 19 2005, 03:44 AM'] [color=blue]Deu 13:1  "If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder,
Deu 13:2  and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, 'Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,'
Deu 13:3  you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you to find out if you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. [/color]

The three children were false prophets, and the "miracle" at Fatima was either a hoax or a work of Satan.  Those who follow after this idolatrous apparition forsake the Gospel.

The Stigmata are not mentioned in the Scriptures; they are an immaterial physical manifestation.  Perhaps they are psychosomatic, perhaps they are demonic, or perhaps they are self-inflicted.  So, I've argued against them.  I will tell you this immediately:  If the visions and predictions at Fatima are truly a miracle from God, then Roman Catholicism must be true.  However, you will have a hard time proving that it's the work of God, rather than the alternative.  If Padre Pio's Stigmata are a miracle from God, then we've only established that God works within the Roman Catholic Church.

Why the distinction?  Because only the Roman Catholic Church holds to a doctrine so violent to the Gospel as the Marian cult.

Is that a straight enough answer for you? [/quote]
Wrong.

You really should study the bible, and the topics you try to argue.

[b]1 John 4:1 [/b]
Beloved, do not trust every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they belong to God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
[b]2 [/b]This is how you can know the Spirit of God: [b]every spirit that acknowledges Jesus Christ come in the flesh be longs to God, [/b]
[b]3 [/b]and every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus does not belong to God. This is the spirit of the antichrist that, as you heard, is to come, but in fact is already in the world.


The Children and the apparition of Mary passed this test. Mary visited these children by the power of God and gave a sign to the world that the Catholic Church has the truth. You should study the Fatima miracles to know what was going on instead of attacking what you know nothing about.


[b]St. Matt 12:24 [/b]
But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "This man drives out demons only by the power of Beelzebul, the prince of demons."
[b]25 [/b]
But he knew what they were thinking and said to them, "[color=red]Every kingdom divided against itself willbe laid waste, and no town or house divided against itself will stand. [/color]
[b]26 [/b][color=red]And if Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself; how, then, will his kingdom stand? [/color]
[b]27 [/b][color=red]And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your own people drive them out? Therefore they will be your judges. [/color]
[b]28 [/b][color=red]But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. [/color]



The miracles were real. The Children were as Christian.

I have already covered your points you attempt to make.

The Catholic Church has been teaching the truth of the Gospel for 2000 years.

You either know nothing about the Gospel or nothing about the Catholic Church.


God Bless,
ironmonk

Edited January 19, 2005 by ironmonk

[Socrates]

[quote name='Broccolifish' date='Jan 19 2005, 01:44 AM'] [color=blue]Deu 13:1 "If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder,
Deu 13:2 and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, 'Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,'
Deu 13:3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you to find out if you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. [/color]

The three children were false prophets, and the "miracle" at Fatima was either a hoax or a work of Satan. Those who follow after this idolatrous apparition forsake the Gospel.

The Stigmata are not mentioned in the Scriptures; they are an immaterial physical manifestation. Perhaps they are psychosomatic, perhaps they are demonic, or perhaps they are self-inflicted. So, I've argued against them. I will tell you this immediately: If the visions and predictions at Fatima are truly a miracle from God, then Roman Catholicism must be true. However, you will have a hard time proving that it's the work of God, rather than the alternative. If Padre Pio's Stigmata are a miracle from God, then we've only established that God works within the Roman Catholic Church.

Why the distinction? Because only the Roman Catholic Church holds to a doctrine so violent to the Gospel as the Marian cult.

Is that a straight enough answer for you? [/quote]
You claim that if the miracle at Fatima was true, then the Catholic Church is true. I have yet to see effective proof that the miracle was false. Even hardened unbelievers claimed to have seen the sun dance. The ignorant shepherd children were warned of the dangers of the "errors of Russia" before Soviet Communism had become an international threat.

There is nothing in the apparitions contrary to Christ are His Gospel, as you claim.
Mary does not claim glory for herself but glorifies Jesus, her Divine Son.

"My soul magnifies the Lord." Luke 1:46

You have not explained how Our Lady's message at Fatima is violent to the Gospel. Everything she says is in accordance to the Gospel of Christ.